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FTF--more later
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jicknarson
Geocacher


Joined: 26 Dec 2008

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
jicknarson wrote:
BigChiefS4 wrote:
I understand posting "FTF. More later". I do it myself as a courtesy to the other FTF hounds out there. It's as simple as that.


Exactly my motivation.
I've read logs from disgruntled cachers who were expecting the FTF but found a signed log. It's very cumbersome to log in the field from my not-so-smart phone, but I attempt to go the "more later" route if I'm not going to be at my computer for some time. - if my phone will even let me do that. I try.
No nefarious game playing, just trying to make people happy...


I contend that there are some cachers that post the "FTF More Later" as they are on their way to nab the FTF as a way to deter others from beating them. Controversial? Yes. Do I care? No. It doesn't happen all that often in my neck of the woods.


Gotta say, this take on things (previously posted) was an eye opener for me. I have never played the game that hard. In my area things are a bit more laid back and less competitive. It's more of a " don't drive this far for an FTF, as I already grabbed it" kind of thing.
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A-body
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009

Posts: 145

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate when someone will post a "FTF, more later" Although I don't consider myself a FTF hound, I appreciate them as much as the rest of you. One time a year or so ago, there was a couple new caches published about 40 miles from my house, which required about a 6.6 mile round trip hike. The next day I looked, and noticed no one had logged a find yet, but a couple of the local" "hounds" were in the park the day before, and had logged all their finds for the day (I thought). I went there, made the hike, and was mildly disappointed to see 2 names on the log sheet. For some reason, they had overlooked logging the 2new caches in the park, but logged them shortly after I logged my finds.
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4042

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A-body wrote:
I appreciate when someone will post a "FTF, more later" Although I don't consider myself a FTF hound, I appreciate them as much as the rest of you. One time a year or so ago, there was a couple new caches published about 40 miles from my house, which required about a 6.6 mile round trip hike. The next day I looked, and noticed no one had logged a find yet, but a couple of the local" "hounds" were in the park the day before, and had logged all their finds for the day (I thought). I went there, made the hike, and was mildly disappointed to see 2 names on the log sheet. For some reason, they had overlooked logging the 2new caches in the park, but logged them shortly after I logged my finds.


That would be irritating, if it were truly intentional. Mad
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Draconisdax
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Joined: 02 Nov 2007

Posts: 982

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I get an First-to-Find, I wait until someone else logs it before I log it...and then I don't even mention I was first on it...that is about how much I value the "FTF" badge...
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beagleboo
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Joined: 06 Sep 2007

Posts: 168

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArcherDragoon wrote:
If I get an First-to-Find, I wait until someone else logs it before I log it...and then I don't even mention I was first on it...that is about how much I value the "FTF" badge...


I've also not logged a FTF as a FTF but just a found it. Smile
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Draconisdax
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Joined: 02 Nov 2007

Posts: 982

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beagleboo wrote:
ArcherDragoon wrote:
If I get an First-to-Find, I wait until someone else logs it before I log it...and then I don't even mention I was first on it...that is about how much I value the "FTF" badge...


I've also not logged a FTF as a FTF but just a found it. Smile


Heck...I have even thumbed through the log book and placed my log on a random page just so no one mentions in their logs I was first...
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15Tango
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Joined: 17 Dec 2002

Posts: 846

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of FTF - how does everyone feel about tribute caches (i.e. CacherX finds 1000 caches)?

Personally, I think the honoree should be allowed to find their own tribute cache first, and after that, it's fair game for everyone else. But I've seen a few tribute caches where a wave of FTF hounds have found it, then the honoree finds it a few days later, and they end up being the 4th or 5th finder of their own tribute.
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BigChiefS4
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Joined: 22 Jun 2011

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the tribute caches that I have placed for others or they have placed for me, we all know about it ahead of time and organize a WNC (WeekNight Caching) group to celebrate the milestone. The tributee gets the "true" FTF but generally everyone shares FTF for the tribute cache.
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RyanLisaKayla
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Joined: 10 Aug 2011

Posts: 163

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

15Tango wrote:
On the subject of FTF - how does everyone feel about tribute caches (i.e. CacherX finds 1000 caches)?

Personally, I think the honoree should be allowed to find their own tribute cache first, and after that, it's fair game for everyone else. But I've seen a few tribute caches where a wave of FTF hounds have found it, then the honoree finds it a few days later, and they end up being the 4th or 5th finder of their own tribute.


Unless the cache page specifically says NOT to worry about saving the FTF for the tribute cache (which I've seen once), I think it is bad etiquette to get the FTF before the honoree has found it. That said, many tribute caches specify to "Please save the FTF for the honoree", and I suppose if you don't say that, a newbie might not know the etiquette...
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RyanLisaKayla
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Joined: 10 Aug 2011

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

15Tango wrote:
On the subject of FTF - how does everyone feel about tribute caches (i.e. CacherX finds 1000 caches)?

Personally, I think the honoree should be allowed to find their own tribute cache first, and after that, it's fair game for everyone else. But I've seen a few tribute caches where a wave of FTF hounds have found it, then the honoree finds it a few days later, and they end up being the 4th or 5th finder of their own tribute.


Unless the cache page specifically says NOT to worry about saving the FTF for the tribute cache (which I've seen once), I think it is bad etiquette to get the FTF before the honoree has found it. That said, many tribute caches specify to "Please save the FTF for the honoree", and I suppose if you don't say that, a newbie might not know the etiquette...
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First to Find is First to Find, regardless of tribute or not, even if my name were ever on one.
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RyanLisaKayla
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Joined: 10 Aug 2011

Posts: 163

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
First to Find is First to Find, regardless of tribute or not, even if my name were ever on one.


But the point is that you don't even search for it (unless you are part of the FTF party WITH the honoree). Save it hidden EXACTLY as the hider intended for the honoree, with contents organized exactly as they intended, a bright shiny log book, etc.

It is one thing if you didn't realize what it was and accidentally hunted for it (like a newbie might do), but most of us that have been around the block at least a little know a tribute cache when we see one and I think proper etiquette is to stay away out of respect for the honoree until you see it had been found.
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bflentje
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanLisaKayla wrote:
bflentje wrote:
First to Find is First to Find, regardless of tribute or not, even if my name were ever on one.


But the point is that you don't even search for it (unless you are part of the FTF party WITH the honoree). Save it hidden EXACTLY as the hider intended for the honoree, with contents organized exactly as they intended, a bright shiny log book, etc.

It is one thing if you didn't realize what it was and accidentally hunted for it (like a newbie might do), but most of us that have been around the block at least a little know a tribute cache when we see one and I think proper etiquette is to stay away out of respect for the honoree until you see it had been found.


First to find is first to find, regardless of what you want to call it. Just because the term etiquette is used, that does not make it a moral or ethical issue if you're first on a tribute and you're not the tributee.

There have been two caches placed with my name in the title (not tributes or milestones) and I just happen to be first. Not because I knew about them or because anyone waited. It's because I did it the old fashioned way. I earned them. One, happen to be in Apple Valley literally as the email come through for a new Collector cache, where he was mocking me. Loved it and scored FTF because I just happen to be driving by. The other, hidden by Boreal Walker, which just contained my name, I was first on because no one else was dumb enough to walk on the frozen Cannon River in the winter.
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RyanLisaKayla
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Joined: 10 Aug 2011

Posts: 163

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:


First to find is first to find, regardless of what you want to call it. Just because the term etiquette is used, that does not make it a moral or ethical issue if you're first on a tribute and you're not the tributee.



I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make. YES, if you go and seek a cache that was tributed to someone else and get your name in that logbook before them, congratulations - you are FTF and nobody can take that away from you. And I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a "moral" or "ethical" issue because this is a game and I don't like to take it that seriously. However, the definition of "etiquette" is "the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group" and I believe the POLITE thing to do is to leave the FTF for the honoree, and therefore there is no possible way to get your name on that log first if you don't even go hunting for it until you see they've found it. It isn't a matter of "what you call it". I'm not suggesting that it is fine to go and find the cache but just leave the TERM "FTF" for the tributee. I'm suggesting that it is impolite to find it in the first place until they have.

Not all caches are like this. The two you mentioned were not real "tributes" per say - your name just happened to be in them. Like I mentioned in another post, I've seen it were the CO said "Don't worry about saving the FTF for the honoree", but I've mostly seen the opposite with descriptions saying "Please save the FTF for the honoree" or "Please don't hunt this one until the honoree has had a chance to find it." Therefore, if the cache description says nothing and it is obviously a tribute cache, I will leave it be, at least for a few days, to give that honoree a chance to find it themselves in the most pristine condition possible.
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanLisaKayla wrote:
bflentje wrote:


First to find is first to find, regardless of what you want to call it. Just because the term etiquette is used, that does not make it a moral or ethical issue if you're first on a tribute and you're not the tributee.



I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make. YES, if you go and seek a cache that was tributed to someone else and get your name in that logbook before them, congratulations - you are FTF and nobody can take that away from you. And I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a "moral" or "ethical" issue because this is a game and I don't like to take it that seriously. However, the definition of "etiquette" is "the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group" and I believe the POLITE thing to do is to leave the FTF for the honoree, and therefore there is no possible way to get your name on that log first if you don't even go hunting for it until you see they've found it. It isn't a matter of "what you call it". I'm not suggesting that it is fine to go and find the cache but just leave the TERM "FTF" for the tributee. I'm suggesting that it is impolite to find it in the first place until they have.

Not all caches are like this. The two you mentioned were not real "tributes" per say - your name just happened to be in them. Like I mentioned in another post, I've seen it were the CO said "Don't worry about saving the FTF for the honoree", but I've mostly seen the opposite with descriptions saying "Please save the FTF for the honoree" or "Please don't hunt this one until the honoree has had a chance to find it." Therefore, if the cache description says nothing and it is obviously a tribute cache, I will leave it be, at least for a few days, to give that honoree a chance to find it themselves in the most pristine condition possible.


All of what you say is true, for you. But it is not up to you to define what is etiquette for the collective. Reserving or assigning FTF is the childish side of the game I think is laughable. And don't misunderstand me, I am hardly an FTF hound.
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