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Dodge County Cache Owners:
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timewellspent
Geocacher


Joined: 19 Mar 2008

Posts: 702

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
If someone stuck a cache directly across the road from my property I'd probably remove it too.


Why? Are you talking street sign caches or if you lived across the street from a park that had a cache in it, would you take that cache as well? Shocked
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Heres_Waldo
Geocacher


Joined: 28 Sep 2011

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't we as geocachers supposed to be stealthy and otherwise not clue in muggles of a cache's whereabouts? The problem with Battleship is that every cache is at an intersection (and these roads tend to have a decent amount of traffic - specifically 30) and sometimes in close proximity to where people are. I had to leave one because someone was out in their shop working 20 yards from the cache. Now, I have no problem leaving a cache behind for the sake of integrity to the game, but some people have no shame and will find a cache even if a muggle is staring them down the whole time.

That's the real reason this has become an issue. This guy doesn't care about a 1 inch container on a street sign that's not even on his property; he doesn't like people coming and going looking weird in front of his home. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't help that the containers aren't exactly hidden and are not camouflaged (at least the ones I did). If they were, and a muggle went to investigate, they might not find it...

Anyways, I'd move it. Like others have said, it's not worth the fight, and it's a fight you can't win unless you are going to put your cache under 24-hour surveillance. But even then, I'm not sure it's theft as some claimed. If you hide a cache on public land for anyone in the public to find (that creates an account), doesn't that kind of make the cache public property too? Sure, it's your responsibility, but is a bison tube a half hour away from your home that you purposely left behind really yours? Bottom line, if you don't want to lose it, don't put it out.
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pattenclan
Geocacher


Joined: 08 Oct 2011

Posts: 210

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres_Waldo wrote:
Aren't we as geocachers supposed to be stealthy and otherwise not clue in muggles of a cache's whereabouts? The problem with Battleship is that every cache is at an intersection (and these roads tend to have a decent amount of traffic - specifically 30) and sometimes in close proximity to where people are. I had to leave one because someone was out in their shop working 20 yards from the cache. Now, I have no problem leaving a cache behind for the sake of integrity to the game, but some people have no shame and will find a cache even if a muggle is staring them down the whole time.

That's the real reason this has become an issue. This guy doesn't care about a 1 inch container on a street sign that's not even on his property; he doesn't like people coming and going looking weird in front of his home. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't help that the containers aren't exactly hidden and are not camouflaged (at least the ones I did). If they were, and a muggle went to investigate, they might not find it...

Anyways, I'd move it. Like others have said, it's not worth the fight, and it's a fight you can't win unless you are going to put your cache under 24-hour surveillance. But even then, I'm not sure it's theft as some claimed. If you hide a cache on public land for anyone in the public to find (that creates an account), doesn't that kind of make the cache public property too? Sure, it's your responsibility, but is a bison tube a half hour away from your home that you purposely left behind really yours? Bottom line, if you don't want to lose it, don't put it out.



You make some valid points. However...the caches on the grid....while some hidden better than others ..werent meant to be hard to find. There is currently some thinking of how to get a viable work around...whether be it moved (as in shifting entire grid if need be), archived, or (as mentioned above) talking directly with the property owner. This wasn't meant to be a conversation about what each cacher would do (or not do), but more an update (initially) on what was going on with the series.
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dornole
Geocacher


Joined: 03 Apr 2006

Posts: 458

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it were too close to my house I'd notify the CO.

As the stash note says "Sometimes a good place turns out to be a bad place though. We apologize, and will be happy to move it."

I think that's the best approach for the good of the game, whether or not we may feel a person's discomfort is reasonable.
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spinowner
Geocacher


Joined: 25 Nov 2004

Posts: 585

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dornole wrote:
If it were too close to my house I'd notify the CO.


+1. A nicely worded geomail is certainly preferable to an ambush, especially from one cacher to another.
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pattenclan
Geocacher


Joined: 08 Oct 2011

Posts: 210

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All which is a great idea.... except it seems this particular owner likes to play he said/she said...so one of the ideas is to talk to the owner with an LEO present to try and curtail that.
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dornole
Geocacher


Joined: 03 Apr 2006

Posts: 458

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starting to sound like a People's Court episode. Are you planning to charge this guy? With theft? With being a lying McLiarpants?

There is no way I'd get LEOs involved to keep a cache where it's obviously not wanted. I'd "be happy to move it." It seems like the best you can hope for is a hostile truce and that's not very pleasant for the people who visit your cache.
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pattenclan
Geocacher


Joined: 08 Oct 2011

Posts: 210

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LEO wouldn't be there for charging anyone with anything. More for saftey as CO meets property owner, and a neutral second set of eyes and ears as any type of compromise (including any possible moves) is tried to be reached. We have a neighbor near us who acts very similar to this particular owner, so we've learned if ANY talking gets done, its better to have an LEO present so any and all decisions and agreements are documented. ..so IF the owner renigs (providing they allows it to stay), then a reminder can be shown.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4033

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dornole wrote:
There is no way I'd get LEOs involved to keep a cache where it's obviously not wanted. I'd "be happy to move it." It seems like the best you can hope for is a hostile truce and that's not very pleasant for the people who visit your cache.


+1

Can't we all just get along?
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4033

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pattenclan wrote:
LEO wouldn't be there for charging anyone with anything. More for saftey as CO meets property owner, and a neutral second set of eyes and ears as any type of compromise (including any possible moves) is tried to be reached.


Is the homeowner being a whiner? Yes, probably. But I think taking it this far is just asinine. Just move or archive the stinking cache already..
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KRedEP
Geocacher


Joined: 03 Aug 2007

Posts: 784

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done this series with a group of friends; it was fun and gave us a great excuse to get together. I'd hate to see it go away because of this issue. Patten's you've sure had your share of drama (ahem MOA) and I believe you are very conscientious in your cache ownership. Your choice to do what you feel necessary, but I agree with the few above that it is probably not worth the argument. While not perfect, there must be a way to move it somewhere else. Again, fun series and I appreciate your effort to work through this!!!
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pattenclan
Geocacher


Joined: 08 Oct 2011

Posts: 210

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I've said earlier. ...moving it isn't of the table, but would require a shift of some kind for the entire grid. This isn't about whining or a whiney property owner. To an extent it is about someone who can't (won't?) keep what they say (ie: telling LEO that now the game has been explained, and traffic would greatly decrease over time (which it has...they were calling because people were stopping at the stop sign...no other reason given), they would have no problems with it staying if nowhere close by could be found. Info was relayed...in one fashion or another...that another place would be attempted, but not likely to be found...and all was well. Until it went missing again. Hence why having a set of neutral ears nearby when talking to the owner...to stop he said/she said before it starts. Not so much as going after anyone, but to try and come to a peaceful agreement. This is the approach we've been told to do with our neighbor, who seems to act similar to us (the kids got cussed at because they were playing in our yard...quietly. ..).

IS it aggravating to lose bison tubes, or to be facing moving a 36 square mile grid to accommodate one owner? YES!!! Is it worth killing a cache over....not at this point. I'm an optimist...I like to try and talk things out or find an amiable solution if possible before extreme measures are taken.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4033

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pattenclan wrote:
but to try and come to a peaceful agreement.


Quote:
Joshua: Greetings, Professor Falken.
Stephen Falken: Hello, Joshua.
Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
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Rustynails
Geocacher


Joined: 27 Oct 2009

Posts: 787

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pattenclan wrote:
IS it aggravating to lose bison tubes, or to be facing moving a 36 square mile grid to accommodate one owner? YES!!! Is it worth killing a cache over....not at this point. I'm an optimist...I like to try and talk things out or find an amiable solution if possible before extreme measures are taken.


I did the Battle Ship series and can see alot of work went into the 36 square mile grid. We stopped at the near by towns at each end of the grid after doing this fun series to get gas and purchase items from the merchants. I'm sure other cachers brought business to these towns as well. To bad the farmer could not understand the benefit of this cache series. But I guess if your a thief you don't care much about others. Good luck with this fun series.
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Boreal Walker
Geocacher


Joined: 14 Aug 2008

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pattenclan wrote:
Like I've said earlier. ...moving it isn't of the table, but would require a shift of some kind for the entire grid.


You shouldn't have to move the entire grid. In order to maintain the integrity of your design, you can create a simple puzzle cache and place the physical cache within two miles of posted. This happens all the time with geo-art.
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