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Duplicate Challenge Caches
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rosebud55112
Geocacher


Joined: 03 May 2008

Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:28 am    Post subject: Duplicate Challenge Caches Reply with quote

Let me lay the groundwork by saying I love mystery/challenge caches (nearly 20% of my finds combined), and that I even own a couple. But I've noticed recently a trend to duplicate existing challenge caches, or to "nearly" duplicate existing challenge caches, with perhaps a slight change in a required number. Sometimes a slight change in a single number can significantly alter the likelihood/ease of qualifying. I have no issues in those cases. But sometimes it seems to me that the universe of people who qualify for Challenge A and those who qualify for Challenge B are practically defined to be the same cohort.

I guess I always thought that there was some type of understanding that a single type of challenge should not be duplicated within a state. Admittedly, that means something different to cachers in RI than it does to those in TX, but it seems like that's gone out the window.

I guess I thought I read that about the "Fizzy" Challenges--does it apply there?

I know I sound like a curmudgeon here, and no one is forced to qualify for or find any cache they don't want to, but is duplication that necessary?
Am I the only one who finds this odd?

(And I file this under "Another Reason I'm Too ***** To Be A Volunteer Reviewer"; people complaining like this. I don't think the reviewers need to put a stop to it; I imagine that job is thankless enough and difficult enough as is.)

Again, I appreciate people putting out challenging Challenge caches. The idea of duplicating existing Challenges (particularly in the same part of the state) just strikes me as odd.
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WestSideDaddy
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's like movies and books. All the good plots have already been used so all that is left is derivative works.

I've seen a few of the "almost there" one and I like those ideas.
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King Boreas
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2439

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Examples?
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dornole
Geocacher


Joined: 03 Apr 2006

Posts: 458

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well ideally Groundspeak would have "Challenge" as a real and actual cache type vs. a lame non-caching thing. Then it would be a lot easier to search for challenges to see if a similar one had already been done when thinking up a challenge hide.
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pfalstad
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

King Boreas wrote:
Examples?

http://coord.info/GC2Q1X5
http://coord.info/GC3E3BQ
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WestSideDaddy
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
King Boreas wrote:
Examples?

http://coord.info/GC2Q1X5
http://coord.info/GC3E3BQ



I like the 60% and 80%. It's fun to have an interim goal.
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AerosmithPA
MnGCA President


Joined: 19 Nov 2005

Posts: 1090

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just throwing this out there...

If you really break it down, what is a challenge cache except a traditional cache with a twist? It all boils down to who did the leg work to be able to sign the log. I guess in this light there may be little difference between the challenge cache and a premium member cache.
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rosebud55112
Geocacher


Joined: 03 May 2008

Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AerosmithPA wrote:
Just throwing this out there...

If you really break it down, what is a challenge cache except a traditional cache with a twist? It all boils down to who did the leg work to be able to sign the log. I guess in this light there may be little difference between the challenge cache and a premium member cache.


Well, one significant difference is that (just about) anyone can quite quickly go from ineligible for PM caches to eligible, whereas that's not true for the vast majority of challenge caches. That's not even counting the PM backdoor method.

Re examples: I intentionally didn't mention any because I'm not trying to come down on any cache owners, just wondering.
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AerosmithPA
MnGCA President


Joined: 19 Nov 2005

Posts: 1090

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't read too much into the example I laid out (premium caches). That was just an example. My point being is that a challenge boils down to a single log book and a single smiley. Once you open the floodgates, they are open. I could have used any example to any extreme, such as disallowing more than one birdhouse cache in a park. I don't know of any GatR's or Fruitcakes in this state who wants to be that cop.

With all of that being said, I do appreciate your original post, because I do think the best way to police any caches which may be, um, of questionable nature (for lack of better term), is in an open forum such as this. Groundspeak has GREAT guidelines which make the game fun and socially acceptable. The reviewers can't inspect them all, so it is up to the cachers themselves to do the reviews of caches which are of top grade, and those which may not be.
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Sharknose Bunnies
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Joined: 29 Jun 2009

Posts: 303

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the new Earthcache Alphabet Challenge is a MN duplicate as well, but Boreal Walker's original one is quite a ways outside of the metro area.

There are two "same cache name" challenges in Saint Paul now as well.

My general reaction was "Huh?" but that's about as far as it went. Not sure I have an opinion on it one way or the other. If it's only a handful of cases I don't think it's a big deal.
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1009

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it's no worse than having a particular type of puzzle duplicated (white text, elements, ...). Smile
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4028

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say who gives a rip. It gives us non puzzle solvers a chance at the question mark.
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Bunganator
Geocacher


Joined: 09 Apr 2008

Posts: 277

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
King Boreas wrote:
Examples?

http://coord.info/GC2Q1X5
http://coord.info/GC3E3BQ


I find it even more strange that one of these is a 1.5/1.5 and the other is a 5/4. I would put the Difficulty at maybe a 3. It wasn't that tough, but it was often inconvenient since I did it in conjunction with the 365 streak challenge.
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Arcticabn
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 30 Nov 2003

Posts: 1846

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone has opinions, so here's mine.

I don't have a problem with similar or identical challenge caches in different locations. I do have a problem with similar or identical challenges in the same geographical location.

Example. The 366 day challenge. I've got no problem with one being in each state or maybe even each major city. But I don't think that there needs to be two or more of the same challenge in the relatively the same location.
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GeoPierce
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005

Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arcticabn wrote:
Everyone has opinions, so here's mine.

I don't have a problem with similar or identical challenge caches in different locations. I do have a problem with similar or identical challenges in the same geographical location.

Example. The 366 day challenge. I've got no problem with one being in each state or maybe even each major city. But I don't think that there needs to be two or more of the same challenge in the relatively the same location.

Why not? Don't you deserve two smileys for doing all that work to fill up your calendar? I think cachers should get 5 smileys for caching 365 days in a row!
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