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Changing a puzzle

 
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WestSideDaddy
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:27 am    Post subject: Changing a puzzle Reply with quote

Looking for an opinion on changing a puzzle after it has been published (and found the first time).

Not correcting any kind of an error, but making it easier.

Say, for example, the classic list of word, and you assigned light blue to the North coords and almost the same light blue to the West (close enough that you need to look at the HTML to tell the difference).

If you had to point this out to people (and it was critical to solving it) would it be ok to go back and make them more different. Is that fair to the early solvers (and not solvers).

Or just add it as a hint? Which seems to be as much of a giveaway as just changing it.

Also, if you added a hint, can you replace it. Or do you have to leave it there as it originally was? If you realized a hint was a total gimme it isn't fair to make it more obscure because then the earlier puzzlers had it easier.

Also, if you have to change the puzzle final after the encryption is done, do you re-calculate your puzzle or just have the solver give the adjusted coords (with a comment to that effect in the cache text).

Maybe I am making too big a deal out of this.
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RudeRat
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Joined: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 791

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you should archive the puzzle and replace it with a regular
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JJnTJ
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010

Posts: 218

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's your puzzle; do what you want. Cool

In my opinion, I usually have a difficulty rating I'm working towards, and so modifications that move the difficulty in that direction seem fine to me.

As for adjusting the final; whatever you want to do is fine. It can be a major PITA to re-engineer a puzzle around new coordinates, and in those cases I think it's perfectly fine to modify the checker for the new coordinates, and put some text above the checker link saying "add .003 to the longitude minutes before running through the checker".

I'm biased; my habit is to copy the text off the checker page and paste it in my PCN, so I prefer that the checker approves the actual final location with all the adjustments added in.
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4030

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had to change some of my puzzles in the past. I like Ruderat's idea but the bottom line is, it's your puzzle and you can change it. Or an even better idea. just add the solution as an additional waypoint. Wink
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WestSideDaddy
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think this cache was cursed to begin with. Started as a challenge that didn't meet the listing guidelines, was going to be a multi but there wasn't any other good stage locations so it became a puzzle. Finally got it published and it didn't get solved (like usual) in the first 30 minutes, not the next day. So I added a clue, then another. Then when it finally got solved, the bloody container (which I hid 3 weeks ago) was MIA.

The cursed geocache.
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tonkaMN
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Joined: 10 Jun 2009

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JJnTJ wrote:
It's your puzzle; do what you want. Cool


Exactly what I was going to say
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pfalstad
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1009

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Changing a puzzle Reply with quote

WestSideDaddy wrote:
Looking for an opinion on changing a puzzle after it has been published (and found the first time).

Not correcting any kind of an error, but making it easier.

It has 8 solvers already, what's the problem? Smile

Quote:
Say, for example, the classic list of word, and you assigned light blue to the North coords and almost the same light blue to the West (close enough that you need to look at the HTML to tell the difference).

If you had to point this out to people (and it was critical to solving it) would it be ok to go back and make them more different. Is that fair to the early solvers (and not solvers).

Well now that you told everyone, either way is fine. Wink I add hints all the time.. I don't care about being fair to the early solvers. I post a note saying a hint was added so that people know it used to be harder. I'd wait a bit longer though.

Quote:
Also, if you added a hint, can you replace it. Or do you have to leave it there as it originally was? If you realized a hint was a total gimme it isn't fair to make it more obscure because then the earlier puzzlers had it easier.

Well I certainly don't like to do that.. I only did that once, and then deleted the hint because I made the same puzzle in another state and didn't want people looking through my hides and finding the easy version with the bigger hint. Otherwise, I'd just leave it there. Often when I add what I think are huge hints, they turn out to be not big enough. Wink But if you want to take it out that's fine.. People swap hints all the time, so it's never going to be completely fair for everyone.

Quote:
Also, if you have to change the puzzle final after the encryption is done, do you re-calculate your puzzle or just have the solver give the adjusted coords (with a comment to that effect in the cache text).

Changing the puzzle just wastes everyone's time, IMHO. Have the checker give adjusted coords, and put something in the description saying you moved it. I even change the name of the cache to make it crystal-clear that the cache was moved, but you don't need to do that. I just had a lot of trouble once with people looking in the old spot when I had a move a puzzle final.
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JJnTJ
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Joined: 23 Aug 2010

Posts: 218

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WestSideDaddy wrote:
The cursed geocache.


<my_opinion>
For what it's worth, right now it's a solid, tight, interesting 2 or 2.5 difficulty puzzle. All that needs to be done is bumping the terrain up to 2 and tweaking of the final coordinates a bit.
</my_opinion>
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NeverSummer
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Joined: 20 Feb 2009

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JJnTJ wrote:
WestSideDaddy wrote:
The cursed geocache.


<my_opinion>
For what it's worth, right now it's a solid, tight, interesting 2 or 2.5 difficulty puzzle. All that needs to be done is bumping the terrain up to 2 and tweaking of the final coordinates a bit.
</my_opinion>


I'd +1 this.
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WestSideDaddy
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Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the feedback.
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dornole
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006

Posts: 458

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note to self, quickly look at colors for all West Side Daddy's puzzle listings, : )
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KRedEP
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Joined: 03 Aug 2007

Posts: 784

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Changing a puzzle Reply with quote

First and foremost, do what you want, but here are my two cents:
WestSideDaddy wrote:


Say, for example, the classic list of word, and you assigned light blue to the North coords and almost the same light blue to the West (close enough that you need to look at the HTML to tell the difference).

Thanks!!! Very Happy

WestSideDaddy wrote:
If you had to point this out to people (and it was critical to solving it) would it be ok to go back and make them more different. Is that fair to the early solvers (and not solvers).

hints are given all the time after the first obsessive puzzlers have solved.

WestSideDaddy wrote:
Also, if you added a hint, can you replace it. Or do you have to leave it there as it originally was? If you realized a hint was a total gimme it isn't fair to make it more obscure because then the earlier puzzlers had it easier.

umm, could you wait a bit. I would like to do a bit of....research.

WestSideDaddy wrote:
Also, if you have to change the puzzle final after the encryption is done, do you re-calculate your puzzle or just have the solver give the adjusted coords (with a comment to that effect in the cache text).

Careful here. as a solver I like to copy the coordinates straight from the geochecker - saves me from making a typo. I have had a few case where I've solved a puzzle and didn't get around to finding it till a year or more later. Only to discover it got moved without warning to me - I didn't check the cache page. I'd appreciate if that didn't happen too frequently. offsets give me too much room for error. Somewhere I like to confirm the actual coordinates.
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seeingitdifferent
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Joined: 04 Jun 2009

Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its your puzzle do what you want. I think checking the puzzle a few times before publishing as well as checking the geochecker is very important. There is nothing more frustrating than banging your head against the wall on a broken puzzle or geochecker. If you are trying to play the FTF game that comes with the territory. I don't think it is being unfair to the early solvers if hints get posted later. My 2 cents
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Hal-oween
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009

Posts: 172

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am with kredep in that I am not a fan of offsets because it is really confusing and winds up getting in my database wrong. It just underscores that people need to doublecheck coordinates and review their work before publishing. I know stuff happens but being proactive will make for a better cache experience.
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Brooklyn51
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="NeverSummer"]
JJnTJ wrote:
WestSideDaddy wrote:
The cursed geocache.


<my_opinion>
For what it's worth, right now it's a solid, tight, interesting 2 or 2.5 difficulty puzzle. All that needs to be done is bumping the terrain up to 2 and tweaking of the final coordinates a bit.
</my_opinion>


We thought it was great, even if it was out of our league and we needed a nudge. We do agree that the terrain was a little misleading but that's not what you asked. This one is just one of the harder puzzles, as it stands. I'd leave it as is and help those if they ask.
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