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Puzzle Valley
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minnstars
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Sep 2008

Posts: 298

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at roughly a 40 mile circle around the Twin Cities Metro area using my MN database updated within the last week. This is what I got:

6,380 - Traditionals = 82%
1,150 - Puzzles = 15%
200 - Multi-Caches = 3%
80 - Other Cache Types = 1%
7,810 Total = 100%



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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4050

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not anti-puzzle. But I think that 15% is way too high. I'd like to see that number drop to below 10%.

But I know in just typing this, there are those now lining up new puzzle caches.. sigh.
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WestSideDaddy
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 561

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
I am not anti-puzzle. But I think that 15% is way too high. I'd like to see that number drop to below 10%.

But I know in just typing this, there are those now lining up new puzzle caches.. sigh.


What is your criteria for wanting it to be 10% ? What is the significance of that number? Do you think that multis at 3% is good?

Also, does that differentiate between puzzles vs. challenges in the "?" category?
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minnstars
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Sep 2008

Posts: 298

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WestSideDaddy wrote:
What is your criteria for wanting it to be 10%? What is the significance of that number? Do you think that multis at 3% is good?

Also, does that differentiate between puzzles vs. challenges in the "?" category?


I was actually surprised that it was only 15%, but if I tighten the circle to more like 25 to 30 miles I get closer to 20% Puzzles. Cool

I agree that the number of Multi-Caches is sad. Only 40 Multi-caches have been placed in the metro area in the past year vs. 375 puzzles.

The answer is no I just counted "?" in the 1,150 = 15%. There are 210 challenge caches in the mix, so true puzzles are 940 = 12%.
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JJnTJ
Geocacher


Joined: 23 Aug 2010

Posts: 218

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for compiling those stats, minnstars. Cool
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ST11
Geocacher


Joined: 04 Jul 2009

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find all these calculations and statistics very puzzling.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4050

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WestSideDaddy wrote:
bflentje wrote:
I am not anti-puzzle. But I think that 15% is way too high. I'd like to see that number drop to below 10%.

But I know in just typing this, there are those now lining up new puzzle caches.. sigh.


What is your criteria for wanting it to be 10% ? What is the significance of that number? Do you think that multis at 3% is good?

Also, does that differentiate between puzzles vs. challenges in the "?" category?


My criteria? It is this.. personal preference. At one time I was an avid puzzler and now I hardly find the time to put into it. With lack of time, it's tough to see so many densely placed question marks. I'd prefer to see more multicaches (short and sweet).

Again, just my personal preference. I cache where the caches are.
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WestSideDaddy
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 561

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
WestSideDaddy wrote:
bflentje wrote:
I am not anti-puzzle. But I think that 15% is way too high. I'd like to see that number drop to below 10%.

But I know in just typing this, there are those now lining up new puzzle caches.. sigh.


What is your criteria for wanting it to be 10% ? What is the significance of that number? Do you think that multis at 3% is good?

Also, does that differentiate between puzzles vs. challenges in the "?" category?


My criteria? It is this.. personal preference. At one time I was an avid puzzler and now I hardly find the time to put into it. With lack of time, it's tough to see so many densely placed question marks. I'd prefer to see more multicaches (short and sweet).

Again, just my personal preference. I cache where the caches are.


I didn't mean that question as a personal attack (apologies if it was taken that way). I was just wondering what is magic about that percentage of puzzles that made you want it.

To me, it's a function more of the total number of new caches. If there are enough (in volume) of new traditional then the absolute % of traditional to puzzle seems less important.

It just struck me as a very explicit definition of something that didn't seem to be derived on any hard specific requirements.
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4050

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WestSideDaddy wrote:
bflentje wrote:
WestSideDaddy wrote:
bflentje wrote:
I am not anti-puzzle. But I think that 15% is way too high. I'd like to see that number drop to below 10%.

But I know in just typing this, there are those now lining up new puzzle caches.. sigh.


What is your criteria for wanting it to be 10% ? What is the significance of that number? Do you think that multis at 3% is good?

Also, does that differentiate between puzzles vs. challenges in the "?" category?


My criteria? It is this.. personal preference. At one time I was an avid puzzler and now I hardly find the time to put into it. With lack of time, it's tough to see so many densely placed question marks. I'd prefer to see more multicaches (short and sweet).

Again, just my personal preference. I cache where the caches are.


I didn't mean that question as a personal attack (apologies if it was taken that way). I was just wondering what is magic about that percentage of puzzles that made you want it.

To me, it's a function more of the total number of new caches. If there are enough (in volume) of new traditional then the absolute % of traditional to puzzle seems less important.

It just struck me as a very explicit definition of something that didn't seem to be derived on any hard specific requirements.


I wasn't offended. I thought 15% was too high so I pulled a significantly smaller number out of my.. thoughts. I suppose if puzzlers didn't go out of their way to make the next hardest puzzle ever, I'd have a different opinion. For me it just got to be too much. And to clarify, you can see from my stats that I've done a fair amount of puzzling.
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WestSideDaddy
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 561

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:


I wasn't offended. I thought 15% was too high so I pulled a significantly smaller number out of my.. thoughts. I suppose if puzzlers didn't go out of their way to make the next hardest puzzle ever, I'd have a different opinion. For me it just got to be too much. And to clarify, you can see from my stats that I've done a fair amount of puzzling.


I think you mean the "next more harderest puzzle ever" Wink

I've hidden some, solved some and failed miserably with some. It does seem that either they are getting more difficult or maybe (less likely) I am getting less smarter. Embarassed
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minnstars
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Sep 2008

Posts: 298

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:

My criteria? It is this.. personal preference. At one time I was an avid puzzler and now I hardly find the time to put into it. With lack of time, it's tough to see so many densely placed question marks. I'd prefer to see more multicaches (short and sweet).

Again, just my personal preference. I cache where the caches are.


I personally enjoy puzzles because of the challenge of creating & solving them, but I will admit it can be time consuming. There is a small, but very robust puzzle community in the Twin Cities. It's quite amazing to see the level of creativity that goes into some of these puzzles. I can think of few human endeavors where people use more of their mental abilities than this.

Having said all that the real question is do puzzle caches in any way impact the number of traditional or Multicaches being published, regardless of the percentages. The majority of puzzle hides are micros hidden on road signs, or similar PnG's. From a pure geocaching standpoint I don't think these hides are taking away much real estate. I guess one could argue that the energy hiders are putting into puzzles caches could be directed toward traditional & Multi's. But the fact is there are not that many parks or public places left in the metro area where you can execute a nice traditional or Multi hide. On the other hand there is an almost endless supply of stop signs. Wink
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1013

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
My criteria? It is this.. personal preference. At one time I was an avid puzzler and now I hardly find the time to put into it. With lack of time, it's tough to see so many densely placed question marks.

I'll admit it's gotten a little ridiculous. Before I liked to solve them all myself, now I team up with other cachers to solve many of them. But it's more fun that way anyway.
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timewellspent
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008

Posts: 706

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
I'll admit it's gotten a little ridiculous. Before I liked to solve them all myself, now I team up with other cachers to solve many of them. But it's more fun that way anyway.


How does one apply to be on the pfalstad puzzle solving team? Very Happy
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minnstars
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Sep 2008

Posts: 298

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

timewellspent wrote:
pfalstad wrote:
I'll admit it's gotten a little ridiculous. Before I liked to solve them all myself, now I team up with other cachers to solve many of them. But it's more fun that way anyway.


How does one apply to be on the pfalstad puzzle solving team? Very Happy


+1 Cool
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4050

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

timewellspent wrote:
pfalstad wrote:
I'll admit it's gotten a little ridiculous. Before I liked to solve them all myself, now I team up with other cachers to solve many of them. But it's more fun that way anyway.


How does one apply to be on the pfalstad puzzle solving team? Very Happy


The best we can hope for is a 3rd Biennial FSUNoles Puzzle Event.
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