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Way Far off
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ST11
Geocacher


Joined: 04 Jul 2009

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Way Far off Reply with quote

OK first off I am not ranting or complaining - just suggesting

Between the Idiot Talasay and myself we have some 250 caches spread from here to Malaysia.

While we try to get those coordinates as close as possible sometimes the old GPS just doesn't like to comply.

What I see in logs is notations like, "coordinates were off" or "we had to expand our search as the GZ seems to be way off"

Now normally we would go out and try to zero back in but wouldn't it be nice if cachers simply posted "seems like the coordinates are off to the north 30 feet" or something like that.
Sure would be faster for a CO to just do the math and adjust, especially if several cachers agree on the the distance and directions.

I know I have two caches right now that I have tried to tune in three times so far and still keep receiving "cache location seems a bit off" - OK how far and what direction??

I think posting the need for a coordinate change along with suggestions just makes correcting the fault that much easier and faster and is of benifidt to all.

Again I am not ranting - Talasay made me do it! Evil or Very Mad
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Arcticabn
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 30 Nov 2003

Posts: 1846

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it would be nice.

However, GPS is inherently inaccurate. The standard set of coordinates can be as much as 90' off from the posted coordinates. 20', 30' 40' can occur in different directions on different days. That is the nature of GPS without differential correction or without having the encrypted offset that the USG embeds in the GPS signal for military use.

Besides you don't know if the GPS they have is any good or not.

So just take it with a grain of salt.
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kc9gbo
Geocacher


Joined: 26 Jun 2009

Posts: 158

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like said gps units seem to be off individually. I did see some logs today on a cache where people were finding the cache and stating they found the cache 29 feet from their ground zero and another said 18 feet, I was shocked as that's well within my tolerance zone. Anything over 40 feet off I consider coords being off.
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tonkaMN
MnGCA Board


Joined: 10 Jun 2009

Posts: 894

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never state that the coordinates are off and I don't like it when people post that the coordinates are off on my caches. I used google maps to tweak the coords on one of my caches. The coords are dead on and I still have people that post that the coords are off. I will post in my log that I found the cache 40 feet NE of where my GPSr was telling me to look because I can't confirm that my GPSr is accurate to a foot or 40 feet. I just state what I observed and hope that it helps the next cacher. I have occasionally posted coordinates with my log if I remember to check the coords where I found the cache.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5694

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonkaMN wrote:
I never state that the coordinates are off and I don't like it when people post that the coordinates are off on my caches.


That's one of the most useful pieces of information in my opinion (for both the owner and following seekers), especially if the information is consistent. Whether the seeker GPS is off the day they're finding the cache or yours was off the day you hid the cache (and thus even though the wording of the text may imply that it's your fault when it's not), the bottom line is the same and the information is still, IMHO, useful.

Quote:
I used google maps to tweak the coords on one of my caches.


Your GPS is much more accurate than Google Maps. "Trust the GPS."
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Draconisdax
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Nov 2007

Posts: 982

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it does make me look at that statement different...I usually just post it for reference...if others look up past logs in the field (and I do when having problems), it is nice to see a log that mentions they expanded their area...I never meant it as a negative to the cache owner if I stated it...and I have never taken it as a negative on my caches...GPS units are just "off"...

I also invite people to post their coords...as posted, I try to average their readings with mine...
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dornole
Geocacher


Joined: 03 Apr 2006

Posts: 460

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, once I had coordinates that were 500 feet off due to a typing error in my cache submission . . . . when Rickrich couldn't FTF a regular cache I knew something must be wrong and went out right away. When I followed the coords I had used to publish -- hoo boy. Embarrassin'.

If the coords are within 60 feet I don't bother to say anything, write it off to margin of error. If my GPS is wonky that day, same. As a result I can't remember last time I commented on coords. I agree that as an owner I no longer worry about getting these "coords off" logs. Hide regulars that are not too hard and you will get fewer coordinate complaints. : ) Some areas are just tough too, like this canyon I once had a cache in would be off 150-200 feet from day to day. I knocked myself out trying to improve the coords then finally just noted the problem in the log and directed people to use the hint and title and look around them. If the GPS was 100% accurate it wouldn't be much of a game.
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commander & chief
Geocacher


Joined: 26 Apr 2008

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:45 am    Post subject: Way far off Reply with quote

Think we've just been kind of lucky in that I don't remember seeing logs on our Caches stating off coordinates. I would however welcome any comments regarding a problem a seeker may be having finding it. Of course that depends on the difficulty rating. I know that we've posted logs with the coordinates where we held GZ when it was obviously way out of whack. I would hope that most would welcome info of a potential problem with their hide. I did get recently lucky in that I was talking to a finder of one of our recent multi's and by his description I realized that I must have accidentally posted the coordinates for the second stage rather than the first. DOH! Embarassed
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

Posts: 1991

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Way Far off Reply with quote

ST11 wrote:
OK first off I am not ranting or complaining - just suggesting

Between the Idiot Talasay and myself we have some 250 caches spread from here to Malaysia.

While we try to get those coordinates as close as possible sometimes the old GPS just doesn't like to comply.

What I see in logs is notations like, "coordinates were off" or "we had to expand our search as the GZ seems to be way off"

Now normally we would go out and try to zero back in but wouldn't it be nice if cachers simply posted "seems like the coordinates are off to the north 30 feet" or something like that.
Sure would be faster for a CO to just do the math and adjust, especially if several cachers agree on the the distance and directions.

I know I have two caches right now that I have tried to tune in three times so far and still keep receiving "cache location seems a bit off" - OK how far and what direction??

I think posting the need for a coordinate change along with suggestions just makes correcting the fault that much easier and faster and is of benifidt to all.

Again I am not ranting - Talasay made me do it! Evil or Very Mad


They were probably using a Magellan. Wink
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AerosmithPA
MnGCA President


Joined: 19 Nov 2005

Posts: 1117

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm a next finder after someone makes a "coord's off" statement, I will often post the coordinates which my gps gave me at GZ, the accuracy of my unit(s) at the time, and often how long I was at GZ letting the gps settle.

Multis and puzzles are different animals, however. Those times I give how many feet my gps says, and in which direction. One puzzle the first searcher or two could not make the final find. I found it 144 feet off, so I made a little puzzle myself, saying the final was a gross off of the geo-checked numbers.

It is good to know going into a search if people are questioning the coordinates. Then the next searcher needs to know if they need to expand the search area more.
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Manfromwillow
Geocacher


Joined: 04 Oct 2009

Posts: 145

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am a huge fan of people posting more accurate coords
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5694

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manfromwillow wrote:
i am a huge fan of people posting more accurate coords


I am too. I find that it's usually too hard for me to keep track of (I keep track of my found caches using the GPS as I go along), so I kind of gave up getting better coords.
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former hawkeye
Geocacher


Joined: 14 Dec 2005

Posts: 273

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twice I have went to check on a "cache location is off", and I found that darn container -moved 40-50 feet on its own. I guess the cache thought it knew a better hiding spot. The sad thing is the container was right Rolling Eyes
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emmanogoldfish
Geocacher


Joined: 26 Oct 2007

Posts: 106

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

20. 30. 40. 50 feet, really?
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X51hz
Geocacher


Joined: 04 Dec 2007

Posts: 218

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

former hawkeye wrote:
Twice I have went to check on a "cache location is off", and I found that darn container -moved 40-50 feet on its own. I guess the cache thought it knew a better hiding spot. The sad thing is the container was right Rolling Eyes


I hate it when a nonliving object knows of a better spot than you do. What I hate is when they move and hide in a better (but much harder to get to) spot and then you need almost make a whole new page for them, or they hide so good you cant find them.
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