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When is a find a FTF?
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I Spy.
Geocacher


Joined: 16 May 2008

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: When is a find a FTF? Reply with quote

Ok...here's a question for the court of public opinion. Is a find only a FTF if the find was after the cache was published or can it be a FTF if the find was anytime after the cache was hidden but before being published?

This is an interesting question...for those who brute force or even stumble upon an unpublished cache Razz ! I'd lean to giving the FTF to the finder of the cache once it is hidden, regardless when it was published. What do you think?
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beagleboo
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Joined: 06 Sep 2007

Posts: 167

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first to sign that empty log.
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knowschad
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005

Posts: 470

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you were the first one to find it and sign the log, then you were the "FTF". Period. Of course, if you were with the owner when it was hidden, then you knew where is was, so you really can't find it. But an honest find is an honest find, IMO.
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minnstars
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Joined: 18 Sep 2008

Posts: 298

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO a Brute Force find should be worth double the FTF points, given the skill it takes to do it. Laughing But then I'm a card carrying member of the BS39 Squad, so my opinion is probably biased. Wink
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beagleboo wrote:
The first to sign that empty log.


What the dog said.. the first dog that is, oh, and the second dog too.
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pfalstad
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: When is a find a FTF? Reply with quote

I Spy. wrote:
Ok...here's a question for the court of public opinion. Is a find only a FTF if the find was after the cache was published or can it be a FTF if the find was anytime after the cache was hidden but before being published?

I once had a cache hider get really mad at me for finding some caches before they were published. I say, a find is a find, even if it's before publication, but I suppose it's really up to the cache owner.
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4033

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: When is a find a FTF? Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
I Spy. wrote:
Ok...here's a question for the court of public opinion. Is a find only a FTF if the find was after the cache was published or can it be a FTF if the find was anytime after the cache was hidden but before being published?

I once had a cache hider get really mad at me for finding some caches before they were published. I say, a find is a find, even if it's before publication, but I suppose it's really up to the cache owner.


I know a cacher that found a flaw in a puzzle design and managed to solve it without the required secret codes. But I won't bring up coffins and canoes or anything like that.. Embarassed
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KRedEP
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Joined: 03 Aug 2007

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me the thrill is the empty log. If it isn't empty, then it's not an FTF. But since we can all pretty much claim an FTF how we like, it is open for the signer to do as they like.
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KRedEP wrote:
For me the thrill is the empty log. If it isn't empty, then it's not an FTF.


Unless the FTF spot is explicitly drawn out on the log and empty. I allow beta-finders to sign my logs when I hide but only if they preserve the FTF game.
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I Spy.
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Joined: 16 May 2008

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KRedEP wrote:
For me the thrill is the empty log. If it isn't empty, then it's not an FTF. But since we can all pretty much claim an FTF how we like, it is open for the signer to do as they like.


But what if you find an empty log and the cache hasn't been published? Some COs require the cache to be published before a FTF can be found...I guess it's up to them, but I like the element of brute forcing!
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO FTF is in the eye of the beholder.

I can "claim" FTF on whatever I want (ok, maybe not *whatever*, but I can claim it pre-published if I want or not), but in reality I think it's up to the finder if they were the FTF.

This discussion hasn't hit yet on the group FTF issues...
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pfalstad
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: When is a find a FTF? Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
I know a cacher that found a flaw in a puzzle design and managed to solve it without the required secret codes. But I won't bring up coffins and canoes or anything like that.. Embarassed

Heh, that wasn't pre-publication though.

I won't bring up baseballs or anything like that... Wink
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: When is a find a FTF? Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
bflentje wrote:
I know a cacher that found a flaw in a puzzle design and managed to solve it without the required secret codes. But I won't bring up coffins and canoes or anything like that.. Embarassed

Heh, that wasn't pre-publication though.

I won't bring up baseballs or anything like that... Wink


Baseballs and ALRs. One is allowed and the other isn't. Wink

BTW, how do you all feel about group FTF's? Not sure where I stand as an on-again-off-again FTF hound wannabe.
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KRedEP
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Joined: 03 Aug 2007

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: When is a find a FTF? Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:

BTW, how do you all feel about group FTF's? Not sure where I stand as an on-again-off-again FTF hound wannabe.
Sometimes I claim them, sometimes I don't, depending on how I feel at the time, and the circumstances.
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minnstars
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Sep 2008

Posts: 298

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: When is a find a FTF? Reply with quote

KRedEP wrote:
bflentje wrote:

BTW, how do you all feel about group FTF's? Not sure where I stand as an on-again-off-again FTF hound wannabe.
Sometimes I claim them, sometimes I don't, depending on how I feel at the time, and the circumstances.


I'm not much of a hound anymore, but I enjoy sharing FTF as long as everyone arrives at GZ about the same time and the log is unsigned. In the case of a WNC arranged so everyone can claim FTF on a new cache or caches, I have also done this on several occasions and think this is a fun tradition. If it is a tribute cache however, like a 1,000 finds cache, I usually don't claim FTF, but I don't see anything wrong with this if the CO and person for whom the tribute is for agree.
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