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Caches cannot encourage placing new caches
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tonkaMN
MnGCA Board


Joined: 10 Jun 2009

Posts: 888

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:50 pm    Post subject: Caches cannot encourage placing new caches Reply with quote

So, I wanted to hide a big cooler in the woods and fill it with all the extra cache containers that have been collecting dust in my garage, but I cannot get it approved because it violates policy by encouraging others to place new caches!?! Isn't this game all about placing new caches so that we don't find them all? Besides, this is what my description said, 'If you place a cache from here please let me know so that I can add it to the bookmark list of caches that have grown from here'. Is that really encouraging others to place a cache?
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Rustynails
Geocacher


Joined: 27 Oct 2009

Posts: 788

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check this one out. http://coord.info/GC1HVEC

I found it and know there are others.


Last edited by Rustynails on Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Captain and Mate
Geocacher


Joined: 28 Nov 2010

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, when did this guideline pop up? We've found a lot of caches that had containers inside (seed caches) that were to become new caches elsewhere. Also, we've got a cache whose name starts with "P.I.F.", which stands for "Pay it Forward" and it encourages finders to add to the game by placing their own caches.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5693

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rustynails wrote:
Check this one out. http://coord.info/GC1HVEC

I found it and know there are others.


How does a cache that doesn't follow the rules make this any different?
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Draconisdax
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Nov 2007

Posts: 982

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Seed Cache Guideline has been out for a couple years now...
.
.
.
My guess...and only a guess...is that you are requesting people let you know how and where they used a cache they nabbed from your cache is the problem with the description...
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Draconisdax
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Joined: 02 Nov 2007

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
Rustynails wrote:
Check this one out. http://coord.info/GC1HVEC

I found it and know there are others.


How does a cache that doesn't follow the rules make this any different?

...and that one is from 2008...pretty close to when the last of the Seed Caches were allowed...
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Rustynails
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Joined: 27 Oct 2009

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
Rustynails wrote:
Check this one out. http://coord.info/GC1HVEC

I found it and know there are others.


How does a cache that doesn't follow the rules make this any different?


I'm just saying that this one and others exist. Why is it wrong to promote geocaching this way?
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4039

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to have a seed cache and it kind of backfired as I had it filled with micros. I was saturated with micros Wink. But the seed cache idea being against the guidelines has been around a while, as others have said.
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tonkaMN
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Joined: 10 Jun 2009

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone explain why it is bad to encourage others to place caches?
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait a minute, I seed cache used to require a new cache be hidden. Are you telling me that you can't even suggest hiding a cache having provided a container? While I no longer support seed caches, even outlawing the "suggestion" of a new cache seems to cross the line. But then not sure of all the facts.
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qwerty2582
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 03 Apr 2009

Posts: 458

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had never seen or heard anything saying this is no longer allowed, so I reviewed the guidelines. Then I spent a couple minutes with Google and found this:

http://iowaadmin.blogspot.com/2011/04/seed-caches.html

Basically says the encouragement of moving a seed along constitutes an ALR. But like you said at the beginning Tonka, I'm not sure "tell me if you do" is encouragement...

Personally, I think this is taking the ALR rule a bit far (assuming ALR is the reason), but I can't fault our trusty local reviewer, since it appears to be a national thing...
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tonkaMN
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Joined: 10 Jun 2009

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I even removed 'tell me if you hide a cache from here' and there is still an issue. Just stating in the cache description that there are cache containers in it and that you are free to take one seems to be a problem. I think that is a huge stretch to say that my cache has an Additional Listing Requirement just because it states that there are cache containers in there.

Here is the actual description: "I will try to keep it stocked with cache containers. If you need a container please take one. If you have extras, please drop them off for others to use. "

It is getting to the point where the rules make playing the game not that much fun. I am seriously considering never hiding another cache.


Last edited by tonkaMN on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5693

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From http://iowaadmin.blogspot.com/2011/04/seed-caches.html

Quote:
I think this is a good idea because too often, the seed caches obtained from mother caches were placed in less than ideal locations with little thought going into them and little maintenance provided after the hide.


And in that I think you have the reason.
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MN.Fruitcake
Minnesota Reviewer


Joined: 18 Oct 2010

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonkaMN wrote:
I even removed 'tell me if you hide a cache from here' and there is still an issue. Just stating in the cache description that there are cache containers in it and that you are free to take one seems to be a problem. I think that is a huge stretch to say that my cache has an Additional Listing Requirement just because it states that there are cache containers in there.

Here is the actual description: "I will try to keep it stocked with cache containers. If you need a container please take one. If you have extras, please drop them off for others to use. "


That's interesting as *I* haven't even figured out what the issue is, or more exactly IF there is an issue yet.

Maybe it's easier if I spend the couple of days, without providing you the feedback that tells you that I'm going to seek the opinions of other reviewers, rather than being up front about where I'm at in the process? Apparently the idea of communicating up front and timely with cache owners is a bad idea?

Forgive me, I still get to some points where it takes me a little extra time to make sure I get it right (this apparently being one of them).
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timewellspent
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008

Posts: 704

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
Wait a minute, I seed cache used to require a new cache be hidden. Are you telling me that you can't even suggest hiding a cache having provided a container? While I no longer support seed caches, even outlawing the "suggestion" of a new cache seems to cross the line. But then not sure of all the facts.


That is true, you can't "Suggest" the finder to hide a new cache and that is even if you don't have extra containers in the cache. This rule change is what put an end to Collector's FTF Hounds MN Style Series.
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