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Screws/Nails/Holes
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Sky King 36
Geocacher


Joined: 09 Apr 2009

Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can think of literally hundreds of caches where I thought to myself, "did the hider consider how much damage was going to be done by the finders?"

I don't mean to pick on anyone or single anyone out, but here's some good examples of perfectly good hides that have been abused by finders. I once went to look for "Roseville PNG" and found that every sprinkler head on the little traffic island had been disassembled. I put the parts back together, fully aware that the spray may very well be facing the wrong direction. A few days later, I came back, and all of the sprinkler heads were disassembled agin, and the journal box on the light pole had fallen off. Voles? Aliens? Doubtful. In the pictures for "Towering Cache", you can see that a cacher drove those deer-hunting spikes into a living tree to make the climb. These are just two examples. Look at the bark and the small limbs on any cache that requires a tree climb. Look at the paint on any LPC post that has been around for a while.

These are real problems, and sadly--geocaching as a sport deserves much of the bad reputation we've gotten from ecologists. We are denying it and not being honest with ourselves about the impact that our hobby is having--ecological impact on nature, and physical impact on property. And, the popularity of caching means that our caches are now attractings millions of non-wildlife-enthusiasts out into the wild. Your cache in the woods will no longer just be hunted by "leave no trace" outdoor enthusiasts.

Here's some thoughts:

  1. When placing a cache, you as the hider have a responsibility to consider the wear and tear of the finders that will come. You can't just place the cache and say "hey, whatever people do to find my cache is not my responsibility, that's on them." The tree, the bench, the wall you hid your hide in didn't have ANY say in the matter, it was depending on you alone to be its advocate.
  2. The more difficult a cache is, the more the difficulty will encourage the searcher to take extraordinary measures to find the cache. In other words, a harder, smaller cache will often invite more wear and tear than a larger one.
  3. Don't forget that in a more difficult cache, there will be many times more people actually looking than will log a DNF, so you cannot assess wear and tear online. As a hider of a difficult cache, you need to visit it regularly and see if the wear is becoming burdensome.
  4. As a finder, be cognizant of how much damage you are doing... To you, the GZ may look close the same as when you left as when you came. But multiply your 1% wear and tear by 100 finders, and you realize your goal has to be .001%, not 1%.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4015

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stirring the pot again?
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dornole
Geocacher


Joined: 03 Apr 2006

Posts: 457

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure it's just expressing a well-thought-out opinion which would seem to be the obvious purpose of a forum.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4015

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dornole wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's just expressing a well-thought-out opinion which would seem to be the obvious purpose of a forum.


My post was kind of vague, wasn't it. There was an inside joke.
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sigilwig44
Geocacher


Joined: 31 Mar 2011

Posts: 332

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
caches that are buried


What about those sprinklerhead caches? Do those apply?
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MN.Fruitcake
Minnesota Reviewer


Joined: 18 Oct 2010

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sigilwig44 wrote:
Pear Head wrote:
caches that are buried


What about those sprinklerhead caches? Do those apply?


Yes, they break ground just like any other buried cache.
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sigilwig44
Geocacher


Joined: 31 Mar 2011

Posts: 332

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MN.Fruitcake wrote:
sigilwig44 wrote:
Pear Head wrote:
caches that are buried


What about those sprinklerhead caches? Do those apply?


Yes, they break ground just like any other buried cache.


Why do they get published then?
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4015

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sigilwig44 wrote:
MN.Fruitcake wrote:
sigilwig44 wrote:
Pear Head wrote:
caches that are buried


What about those sprinklerhead caches? Do those apply?


Yes, they break ground just like any other buried cache.


Why do they get published then?


Come on now.. it's because the submitted cache listings do not come out and say "HERE I AM, A BURIED CACHE". And then cachers love the challenge so much that they are reluctant to post a NM or a NA. I for one just mind my own business. I've never hidden a buried cache though some would agree that if the coffin had been buried there would have been less trouble.
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dornole
Geocacher


Joined: 03 Apr 2006

Posts: 457

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never considered a cache that is set into the ground, like in a can or tube or something with something other than soil covering it as "buried." If you don't need a shovel that seems ok.

Though perhaps I am missing other inside jokes. : )
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sigilwig44
Geocacher


Joined: 31 Mar 2011

Posts: 332

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
sigilwig44 wrote:
MN.Fruitcake wrote:
sigilwig44 wrote:
Pear Head wrote:
caches that are buried


What about those sprinklerhead caches? Do those apply?


Yes, they break ground just like any other buried cache.


Why do they get published then?


Come on now.. it's because the submitted cache listings do not come out and say "HERE I AM, A BURIED CACHE". And then cachers love the challenge so much that they are reluctant to post a NM or a NA. I for one just mind my own business. I've never hidden a buried cache though some would agree that if the coffin had been buried there would have been less trouble.


True. But i've seen them on some caching container sales site. And I suppose if you get permission from the land owners it's probably OK.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4015

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dornole wrote:
I've never considered a cache that is set into the ground, like in a can or tube or something with something other than soil covering it as "buried." If you don't need a shovel that seems ok.

Though perhaps I am missing other inside jokes. : )


No inside jokes on this one.
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EPMinnesota
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 13 Apr 2006

Posts: 1940

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps asking groundspeak directly will clarify the issue. When I had a question about whether food could be shown on a cache/event page they replied that food was certainly okay to be pictured on a cache page as along as it was not "branded". You can't show a Subway sub, a McDonald's Big Mac, etc. but a general hamburger meal, burrito meal, pizza, breakfast, etc. on a plate is perfectly fine.
My understanding of "buried" from groundspeak is you can't use a shovel and you can't cover it with dirt. Leaves, sticks, or other foliage is okay. BUT I'm not the reviewer so what he says is what you have to go by.
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sigilwig44
Geocacher


Joined: 31 Mar 2011

Posts: 332

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EPMinnesota wrote:
My understanding of "buried" from groundspeak is you can't use a shovel and you can't cover it with dirt. Leaves, sticks, or other foliage is okay. BUT I'm not the reviewer so what he says is what you have to go by.


I agree with that.
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RudeRat
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 788

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a cache that I actually brought dirt with me and backfilled. I get complaints of it being an illegal cache, but they still log the smiley. I do not believe this is against the rules because I did not cover the cache and I did not dig or break ground. I simply added dirt to keep it in place.

Also, have they updated the guidelines to include the phrase “or break ground”? I don’t recall that being there a few years ago.
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minnesotabrad
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Posts: 1264
Location: Brooklyn Center MN

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EPMinnesota wrote:

My understanding of "buried" from groundspeak is you can't use a shovel and you can't cover it with dirt. Leaves, sticks, or other foliage is okay. .


Here is guideline 4 which if you read it for what it says covering it would not be okay. Moving items to hide or cover a cache would be altering objects to provide a hiding place.

Geocache placements do not deface or destroy public or private property. Geocaches are placed so that the surrounding environment is safe from both intentional or unintentional harm. Keep both natural and human-made objects safe. No object or property may be altered to provide a hiding place, clue, or means of logging a find.
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