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What is a PAF?
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Guitar Solo
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Joined: 27 Aug 2010

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: What is a PAF? Reply with quote

I keep seeing this.
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: What is a PAF? Reply with quote

97rs24 wrote:
I keep seeing this.

phone-a-friend
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Brooklyn51
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a long time, we thought it meant poke-and-feel. Smile
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Red_Devil35
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 26 Apr 2006

Posts: 3097

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brooklyn51 wrote:
For a long time, we thought it meant poke-and-feel. Smile

That depends on who you are caching with! Cool
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RudeRat
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 796

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I try hard not to use the PAF option unless I feel the cache is missing or the coords are off. I may make a call after a 20 minute search for a 1.5/1.5 regular for example, but prefer to contact the CO for a hint. If all the logs say the coords are off, Iím calling someone for a nudge in the right direction if my initial search comes up empty. Iíve learned that if the cache really evil, good luck with the PAF. Until youíve put in as much search time as the person youíre calling, you aint gettin nuttin but a evil laugh and a good luck wish!
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4041

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RudeRat wrote:
I try hard not to use the PAF option unless I feel the cache is missing or the coords are off. I may make a call after a 20 minute search for a 1.5/1.5 regular for example, but prefer to contact the CO for a hint. If all the logs say the coords are off, Iím calling someone for a nudge in the right direction if my initial search comes up empty. Iíve learned that if the cache really evil, good luck with the PAF. Until youíve put in as much search time as the person youíre calling, you aint gettin nuttin but a evil laugh and a good luck wish!


I agree in your principals but I disagree about the effectiveness of PAF on difficult caches. I've hidden a handful of 3.5+ caches recently. Once FTF has been established after a long and drawn out search attempts, it's amazing how fast and how many "finds" seem to follow. Even more amazing are those that actually log the find stating how they came to search for the cache with inside information.

Most know I am FAR from perfect and outside of maybe one or two occasions, I try to never use the PAF network on a new cache. I wish others did the same. At the very least, stop advertising the fact that you "cheated yourself" out of a hunt.
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sparkyfry
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008

Posts: 349

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
Most know I am FAR from perfect and outside of maybe one or two occasions, I try to never use the PAF network on a new cache. I wish others did the same. At the very least, stop advertising the fact that you "cheated yourself" out of a hunt.


I'm not perfect either, and I do sometimes resort to phone-a-friends, probably more often than I should. I do try to mention it in my logs -- not to "advertise" the fact, but more just to be honest with myself and other cachers. I don't use PAFs when I'm going after a FTF, but may at some point after it's been found. I'm not sure I know a way to determine when a cache stops being "new" and becomes "old," allowing phone-a-friends to become acceptable in your mind.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5697

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparkyfry wrote:
bflentje wrote:
Most know I am FAR from perfect and outside of maybe one or two occasions, I try to never use the PAF network on a new cache. I wish others did the same. At the very least, stop advertising the fact that you "cheated yourself" out of a hunt.


I'm not perfect either, and I do sometimes resort to phone-a-friends, probably more often than I should. I do try to mention it in my logs -- not to "advertise" the fact, but more just to be honest with myself and other cachers. I don't use PAFs when I'm going after a FTF, but may at some point after it's been found. I'm not sure I know a way to determine when a cache stops being "new" and becomes "old," allowing phone-a-friends to become acceptable in your mind.


+1

We all play the game differently. I use the PAF in a number of situations - on an overly hard cache that I feel I've spent the time I'm willing to invest in it (usually a significant amount of time). On a P&G that I think is no longer in place. On a cache that I hiked in a long ways to do, only to not find the cache in place.

For me, a lot of it is because my time to find caches is more and more limited as life goes on. When I do something like a long hike I feel like I've experienced the experience that the CO wanted me to have, and once I've put in the time required to the point where I either am not able to find the cache or I think it's not there then I feel that PAF is a viable option. Again, we all have different circumstances and play the game differently.

On the last couple of PAFs I did, they were on significant (~2 mile round trip hikes in the winter, one on snowshoes). Neither cache was findable.
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparkyfry wrote:
bflentje wrote:
Most know I am FAR from perfect and outside of maybe one or two occasions, I try to never use the PAF network on a new cache. I wish others did the same. At the very least, stop advertising the fact that you "cheated yourself" out of a hunt.


I'm not perfect either, and I do sometimes resort to phone-a-friends, probably more often than I should. I do try to mention it in my logs -- not to "advertise" the fact, but more just to be honest with myself and other cachers. I don't use PAFs when I'm going after a FTF, but may at some point after it's been found. I'm not sure I know a way to determine when a cache stops being "new" and becomes "old," allowing phone-a-friends to become acceptable in your mind.


Determining when a cache is no longer new is problematic. But in my mind, any cache published within a week or within about 5 finds I'd consider new.

I know I am being hypocritical here.. perhaps I am irritated by getting a taste of my own medicine so soon after having my caches published. Sad
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Hunter-Killer
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Joined: 25 Apr 2009

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall using a phone a friend with Ghost640 on one of his caches, when the dust settled, Kathy and I walked away from it with a DNF, a headache and a craving for a stiff drink Shocked Wink We got it though on the way back home. Most phone a friends go rather well though, and save you the trouble of routing through wet and moldy contents. Get it before the usual happens.
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ST11
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Joined: 04 Jul 2009

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would do this all the time however I have a Phone but no friends Crying or Very sad

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=56b5d9f3-17dd-4fa8-93d8-226d4c2a67fe
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Trekkin' and Birdin'
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the use of PAF depends on the team's intentions as cachers. We see it a lot around here, and have noticed the same phenomenon Bart mentions. Tough, tough hide, then someone gets a hint and it's amazing how quickly it's found after that. So be it.

We pretty much stopped using the phone a couple years ago, though we didn't rely on it heavily in the first place. We like to find all the caches we seek, but decided we wanted to find them ourselves....or not...rather than feel we'd cheated ourselves. I know others just really want to get them all and not have to DNF caches. That's a whole different subject that's been beaten to death, but I think they kind of go hand in hand. If someone calls us about one of our caches, we're more than happy to offer whatever level of help they want, but if it's a cache belonging to someone else....especially one that took us several visits or a long time....it's "call the cache owner."
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RudeRat
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 796

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had one of the cachers in the top 10 list call me 8 times one day. I was starting to feel I was providing a hint prior to him arriving at GZ. I donít really care, but his position in the list does not impress me because of this. To me, that would be as much fun as asking a grocery store attendant where the plain yellow mustard is, then pushing my cart over their and placing it in. Then ask him where the buns are and go grab those. Itís all about the number of items you can scan at the self serve checkout. Fun Fun!!
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tonkaMN
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Joined: 10 Jun 2009

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I use PAF it is because I want to know if I am looking in the right area. As long as I know that I am searching where the cache actually is, I know that I will find it (eventually). Sometimes I get more info than that when I call, but that is not what I am after. I use PAF more for easy caches than for difficult ones. If it's a 1.5 difficulty and I can't find it in 5 minutes then something is wrong. I'm just trying to find out what is wrong (bad coords, my GPSr acting up, missing cache, under-rated, etc.) But I'm not going to criticize anyone else for using PAF to help them find a cache. You play the game however you want. For me, I like to find them without help whenever possible.
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ST11
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Joined: 04 Jul 2009

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use my phone so they can find - ME!
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