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State Forest label requirement on micros
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kc9gbo
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:28 am    Post subject: State Forest label requirement on micros Reply with quote

Just a question concerning how those of you that have placed caches in the state forest label them?
Background: I placed a several stage multi yesterday with containers that are smaller than a matchstick holder to hold my waypoints and after I was on my way home I received a reviewers note on another cache in the same area that I am working with the reviewer on and he pointed me to a section that I didn't see on the DNR site. (he was just asking if I had the requirements fulfilled.)
So, now I have to go back and label my containers, not a big problem except the stages being so small and made to be discreet will be hard to label so I'm looking for suggestions on how to do it. Feel free to pm if you don't want to let folks know your tricks!
Thanks in advance, if I get the stage issue sorted out I think it will be a great cache down this way.
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knowschad
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005

Posts: 468
Location: South St Paul

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent question to which I do not have an answer. But a perfect example of what happens when non-geocachers try to create rules for geocaching.
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Red_Devil35
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 26 Apr 2006

Posts: 3051
Location: Practically South Dakota!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you use a label maker to make clear labels? The containers would be labeled, but hopefully it wouldn't change your the appearance of your container.
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kc9gbo
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of the clear label, I have some clear tape I might be able to label them with. Be a pain getting it on there but would meet the requirement.
And yeah, I'd like to see them come up with guidelines for a nano cache on a stick down a tree hole, guess someone would have to write really really small.
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Moe the Sleaze
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1142
Location: Champlin, MN

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kc9gbo wrote:
And yeah, I'd like to see them come up with guidelines for a nano cache on a stick down a tree hole, guess someone would have to write really really small.

Better yet, hide something more creative than a nano in the woods.
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 3972

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
kc9gbo wrote:
And yeah, I'd like to see them come up with guidelines for a nano cache on a stick down a tree hole, guess someone would have to write really really small.

Better yet, hide something more creative than a nano in the woods.


Owners of nano caches in the woods should be flogged. No, wait, owners of nanos anywhere should be flogged.
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knowschad
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Joined: 20 Jun 2005

Posts: 468
Location: South St Paul

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
kc9gbo wrote:
And yeah, I'd like to see them come up with guidelines for a nano cache on a stick down a tree hole, guess someone would have to write really really small.

Better yet, hide something more creative than a nano in the woods.


In general, yeah... but in kc9gbo's situation, the cache is a "several stage multi", and it may not be possible to use smalls for at least some of the stages.

Of course, I guess one could say "Better yet, hide something more creative than a multi in the woods" Razz
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kc9gbo
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I would and did, the final is a nice ammo can. However, the area is popular with hikers but is rustic with nice features that will be highlighted with the stages
Some of you did the previous caches there (Reno State Forest) overlooking the Mississippi with a cave and quarry and realize that hiding any cache near those spots will not last, that's why a multistage with the spots off from the locations and micro containers that will not be noticed.
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casinoman
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Joined: 26 Mar 2008

Posts: 382

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
Moe the Sleaze wrote:
kc9gbo wrote:
And yeah, I'd like to see them come up with guidelines for a nano cache on a stick down a tree hole, guess someone would have to write really really small.

Better yet, hide something more creative than a nano in the woods.


Owners of nano caches in the woods should be flogged. No, wait, owners of nanos anywhere should be flogged.


I seem to remember a Nano in Rosemont that a sertan somone had out there Wink Wink
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

casinoman wrote:
bflentje wrote:
Moe the Sleaze wrote:
kc9gbo wrote:
And yeah, I'd like to see them come up with guidelines for a nano cache on a stick down a tree hole, guess someone would have to write really really small.

Better yet, hide something more creative than a nano in the woods.


Owners of nano caches in the woods should be flogged. No, wait, owners of nanos anywhere should be flogged.


I seem to remember a Nano in Rosemont that a sertan somone had out there Wink Wink


Yeah, but NEVER in the woods and it had a 4.5 star difficulty rating.
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casinoman
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Joined: 26 Mar 2008

Posts: 382

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
casinoman wrote:
bflentje wrote:
Moe the Sleaze wrote:
kc9gbo wrote:
And yeah, I'd like to see them come up with guidelines for a nano cache on a stick down a tree hole, guess someone would have to write really really small.

Better yet, hide something more creative than a nano in the woods.


Owners of nano caches in the woods should be flogged. No, wait, owners of nanos anywhere should be flogged.


I seem to remember a Nano in Rosemont that a sertan somone had out there Wink Wink


Yeah, but NEVER in the woods and it had a 4.5 star difficulty rating.


Ok you got mr there not in the woods but on the wood. It was a great FTF for me.
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kc9gbo
Geocacher


Joined: 26 Jun 2009

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a follow up on my original question, here is the cache that I was working on. Thanks to that Fruitcake guy for working through everything!

http://coord.info/GC2RQAJ
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GeoPierce
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005

Posts: 1657
Location: Eden Prairie, MN

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only hide micros in the woods.



Moe the Sleaze wrote:
Better yet, hide something more creative than a nano in the woods.

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kc9gbo
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try to get pictures of the two ammo cans I had planned on hiding until the gentle reminder of size requirements. I'll find a spot yet!
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Paklid
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 09 May 2004

Posts: 656
Location: Eagan

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about this "thesis length" post....

State Forest Guidelines:
Quote:
2.0 PERMITS USUALLY ARE NOT REQUIRED IN STATE FORESTS EXCEPT:
•
Groups who want to conduct a short-term, sponsored event may be required to acquire a Special Event Permit if the event involves enough people to disrupt normal use of the forest lands or cause significant environmental effects.
•
Generally a cache may be placed in a state forest without receiving a permit from DNR, providing that no significant damage is caused to commercial or protected species of flora or fauna. All natural resource regulations must be observed including restrictions on off highway vehicles, rutting prohibitions, etc.
•
A cache should be camouflaged to minimize visual impacts.

3.0 CACHE PLACEMENT SUGGESTIONS
1.
DNR is not responsible for the protection of caches placed in areas subject to active resource management like prescribed burns, timber harvest, or in areas planned for facility development. If in doubt, contact a local DNR forester for advice.
2.
Caches are not allowed in Scientific and Natural Areas or areas identified as restricted. Caches may not be buried, nor may vegetation or cultural features be damaged in the process of placing, accessing or maintaining the cache.
3.
DNR- Forestry retains the right to remove, or have removed, a cache it feels is in an inappropriate location, is causing undo impact on forest resources or for other reasons deemed inconsistent with the mission and statutes of the MN State Forest System.
4.0 CACHE CONTAINERS & CONTENTS
1.
Maximum size of cache containers is approximately 8” x 12” x 4” or a container not exceeding 400 cubic inches of capacity.
2.
The container must be marked with the following information: the text “Geocache”, and the name of the cache as it appears on the website.

3.
Caches may only contain a logbook in which to record visits, a description of geocaching and non-perishable, family-friendly items.



And the Oh so similar State Parks Guidelines:
Quote:
Cache Placement
• Caches will be placed at locations where they do not negatively impact natural/cultural resources, visitor safety, or other users.
• Caches are not allowed in Scientific & Natural Areas, areas identified as restricted, golf courses, or overnight use areas.
• Caches may be temporarily removed or permanently relocated to accommodate MN State Park management needs. Park staff will coordinate these actions with the person responsible for the cache whenever possible.
• Caches may not be buried, nor may vegetation, rocks or other natural or cultural features be moved, marked or damaged in the process of placing, accessing or maintaining the cache.
• MN State Parks retains the right to remove, or have removed, a cache it feels is; in an inappropriate location, is causing undue impact on park resources or for other reasons deemed inconsistent with the mission and statutes of the MN State Park System.
• Due to resource protection or other park management concerns, geocaches may not be allowed in all units administered by the Division of Parks & Recreation.
Caches
• Maximum size of cache containers is 8” x 12” x 4”. Containers larger than these dimensions need to be noted on the application and specifically approved by the park manager.
• The container must be marked with the following information: the text “Geocache”, and the name of the cache as it appears on the website.
• Caches may only contain a logbook in which to record visits, a description of geocaching and non-perishable, familyfriendly items.



In generating their guidelines, the State Forests started with what the Parks were working on and the Parks started with what 3 Rivers had going (though the Parks ended up with something quite different) ... so some things that got included in the guidelines probably didn't get in there with much discussion or thought. As you can see above, parts of the State Forest guidelines are copied directly from the State Parks guidelines. The State Forests have some special considerations (like prescribed burns) they wanted to account for in their guidelines, but for the most part - they were very receptive to geocaching and very likely copied parts of the State Parks guidelines because it was easy to do so and it read nicely. If you look at the guidelines, the bent that the forests takes is that the containers shouldn't hurt the surroundings and should blend in so non-cachers would not be affected. They specifically recommend camo. My guess is that the requirement for marking the containers isn't one that is particularly important to them, especially if it's a container that could never be taken for a planted explosive device. If all this guessing is true, they wouldn't have a problem with unmarked micros. The easy way to find out if you can avoid the exterior marking requirement is to ask someone with the authority to answer. There are a couple phone numbers on the guidelines page.
Quote:
For more information contact: Keith Simar (218) 833-8703 or Curt Cogan (218) 833-8697, Division of Forestry or contact the nearest DNR Area Forest Supervisor.

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