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Southdale Center
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Surfer Joe
Minnesota Reviewer


Joined: 18 Jan 2006

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Southdale Center Reply with quote

FYI - Southdale Center management has requested that all caches on their property be removed.

Quote:
It has come to the attention of the Southdale Center management of several caches located on mall property. Several people have been contacted by mall security looking for these items. Mall management is concerned about "hidden items" being left on property. Unfortunately unattended items left on mall property are of great concern these days. Though we do not believe these items were placed at the mall in an effort to compromise the safety and security of the mall, mall management is requesting that all items currently on mall property be removed and that future placement of items at this location be discouraged. This would include the mall proper as well as the parking lot.


This is the third mall in the metro area that I am aware of that has banned caching, the others being Northtown and Albertville.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5694

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Southdale Center Reply with quote

Surfer Joe wrote:
FYI - Southdale Center management has requested that all caches on their property be removed.

Quote:
It has come to the attention of the Southdale Center management of several caches located on mall property. Several people have been contacted by mall security looking for these items. Mall management is concerned about "hidden items" being left on property. Unfortunately unattended items left on mall property are of great concern these days. Though we do not believe these items were placed at the mall in an effort to compromise the safety and security of the mall, mall management is requesting that all items currently on mall property be removed and that future placement of items at this location be discouraged. This would include the mall proper as well as the parking lot.


This is the third mall in the metro area that I am aware of that has banned caching, the others being Northtown and Albertville.


I wonder out loud how many malls are aware that they have/had geocaches on the premises... I'm guessing... 3.
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EPMinnesota
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 13 Apr 2006

Posts: 1944

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't there a problem a couple years back with the cache series at Burnsville Center?
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EPMinnesota wrote:
Wasn't there a problem a couple years back with the cache series at Burnsville Center?

Yep, TECGeoJim got questioned when he tried to find one of those.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4039

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
EPMinnesota wrote:
Wasn't there a problem a couple years back with the cache series at Burnsville Center?

Yep, TECGeoJim got questioned when he tried to find one of those.


I was also stopped by security when searching for those Burnsville Center caches. Of course that was followed up by a Burnsville copper that just happen to be in the parking lot at the time.
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15Tango
Past MnGCA Chair


Joined: 17 Dec 2002

Posts: 843

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Southdale Center Reply with quote

Surfer Joe wrote:
FYI - Southdale Center management has requested that all caches on their property be removed.

Quote:
It has come to the attention of the Southdale Center management of several caches located on mall property. Several people have been contacted by mall security looking for these items. Mall management is concerned about "hidden items" being left on property. Unfortunately unattended items left on mall property are of great concern these days. Though we do not believe these items were placed at the mall in an effort to compromise the safety and security of the mall, mall management is requesting that all items currently on mall property be removed and that future placement of items at this location be discouraged. This would include the mall proper as well as the parking lot.


This is the third mall in the metro area that I am aware of that has banned caching, the others being Northtown and Albertville.


What caches? I just look at the geocaching map, and I don't see "several caches," or any caches for that matter - closest is a puzzle near 70th and York.
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Surfer Joe
Minnesota Reviewer


Joined: 18 Jan 2006

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Southdale Center Reply with quote

15Tango wrote:

What caches? I just look at the geocaching map, and I don't see "several caches," or any caches for that matter - closest is a puzzle near 70th and York.


That's because the caches there have now been archived.
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fireman121
Geocacher


Joined: 06 Feb 2005

Posts: 550

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was not aware that north town mall has band caches on there property.
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casinoman
Geocacher


Joined: 26 Mar 2008

Posts: 383

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
pfalstad wrote:
EPMinnesota wrote:
Wasn't there a problem a couple years back with the cache series at Burnsville Center?

Yep, TECGeoJim got questioned when he tried to find one of those.


I was also stopped by security when searching for those Burnsville Center caches. Of course that was followed up by a Burnsville copper that just happen to be in the parking lot at the time.



I was stoped but there was a bunch of us looking and we were out there with flashlights. I think the owner closed them the next day as he was with us. That is I remember this right you could ask him.
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Rustynails
Geocacher


Joined: 27 Oct 2009

Posts: 788

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has MnGCA tried to educate these mall owner’s ? Let’s not let the terrorist control our lives. I don’t think these malls are on the top of their list. I was going to try that Southdale cache, It’s not been found for several days. Sad Now it's no more.
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

Posts: 1991

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rustynails wrote:
Has MnGCA tried to educate these mall owner’s ?


No, but it's not really part of our mission statement to do so. Where would it end? It's up to EVERY cache owner to obtain permission to place the cache. If the caches in question had asked permission, than this wouldn't have been an issue or would have been less of an issue. I'll be the first to admit I've placed caches in parks and not obtained permission, shocking right? Wink But that doesn't mean I'm not responsible, in some manner, to what happens to the park due to my cache being there. Same as with the Mall. If the MnGCA were to engage businesses like this were would it end? Truthfully we have enough to do dealing with public organizations like parks and city/county boards. If someone wants to contact the mall or any other business I think it would be best handled by the cacher vs. the MnGCA.

That's just my personal opinion as a member of the MnGCA and not as a board member of the MnGCA. If the membership deemed this necessary for use to pursue, as a board member, I would do it.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5694

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedysk1 wrote:
Rustynails wrote:
Has MnGCA tried to educate these mall owner’s ?


No, but it's not really part of our mission statement to do so. Where would it end? It's up to EVERY cache owner to obtain permission to place the cache. If the caches in question had asked permission, than this wouldn't have been an issue or would have been less of an issue. I'll be the first to admit I've placed caches in parks and not obtained permission, shocking right? Wink But that doesn't mean I'm not responsible, in some manner, to what happens to the park due to my cache being there. Same as with the Mall. If the MnGCA were to engage businesses like this were would it end? Truthfully we have enough to do dealing with public organizations like parks and city/county boards. If someone wants to contact the mall or any other business I think it would be best handled by the cacher vs. the MnGCA.

That's just my personal opinion as a member of the MnGCA and not as a board member of the MnGCA. If the membership deemed this necessary for use to pursue, as a board member, I would do it.


I can agree with parts and disagree with parts.

IMHO we should work with all entities.

I don't think we should approach places that don't already have a negative policy with regards to caching (it's up to the individual cacher).

For places like a mall, just sending a generic info packet and form letter would probably be good.

Personally I don't think caches need to be in parking lots - and I doubt you'll convince property owners otherwise. The security concerns outweigh any benefits.
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spinowner
Geocacher


Joined: 25 Nov 2004

Posts: 586

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To hide a cache on any privately-owned property without permission of the owner or owner's agent shows an utter lack of respect for the rights of the property owner. Assuming a cache is allowed simply because the location is a public place (implicit permission as some call it) has been shown by these examples to be insufficient and unacceptable. This is why I no longer go after caches that appear to be on private property until after I contact the cache owner about this issue. If the cache is on private property and explicit permission has not been granted I do not hunt the cache.
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about caches hidden on a mailbox on mall property, are those allowed?
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5694

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
How about caches hidden on a mailbox on mall property, are those allowed?


Like a typical residential mailbox or a USPS box?

Tampering with a mailbox (USPS or residential) is likely a federal felony - I'd rather not push my luck there. Also the chances of a bomb squad call and Geocaching making the front page in a negative way probably are pretty good, given enough time...
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