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"the cleaner"
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me
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Feb 2004

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok everyone...it seems I've caused a bit of a stir here.I am The Cleaner. everyone is ticked off at me for trashing out a junk cache..what right do I have to judge? None. I don't have a personal vendeta against KB....or anyone else...yet....keep the threating emails coming and watch how fast I switch hit..to those of you that sent emails of support..I thank you....to those that said they understood what I did, and then posted hear speaking out aginst me in order to save face, well...one thing I do hate is a hypocrite.

I feel i should explain my actions..and in part apologize to Mr. Boreas. I have been caching for quite awhile now. I have introduced countless people to geocaching. I have even had some caches of my own that many of you enjoyed. I have wanted to drop a new cache for sometime, but everytime I seem to pick a spot..out goes a Boreas cache...It is troubling to have parks close to you that are basically off limits because someone decided they wanted to put another one of thercaches in that park, and many times not even in a good spot. I let all that go, becasue I like to hunt also...so...even though I noticed KB had dropped somewhere around 30 caches this last month, I thought I would go looking for some. A few I found were the usual...cookie can from savers and a trash bag....no big deal....but then I got to Mounds Park on St. Pauls East Side. I was almost excited because it seemed like a nice place...a good hide...then i found it. What I can only describe as absolute garbage. A piece of plastic packaging from who knows what...stuffed in a zip lock. This beautiful spot was hogged up for that? Granted the premis was great, winter carnival button trade (which by the way i fully intend to drop those in another cache, more than likely a KB one, I wasn't trying to steal anything). The problem I had was that this was absolutly garbage. How long could anyone expect that cache to last with that for a conatiner. Not even an old cookie tin this time, just some piece of garbage KB didn't want to throw out. Ok Ok....so he places alot of caches an adds to the sport....granted. I have been to many that weren't so bad. Oh my, and nice containers cost so much. Well...tough. I'm not going to tell people what they should or shouldnt use for containers, I don't care. I actually like to see what people come up with, but this just ticked me off...garabge. Anybody that visited that cache, I know you won't back me up on this because thats not in the nature of people in this group when it goes against the greater public opinion, but if any of you has it in them to post what it was like.....All I can say is SAD....it was sad to see such a great spot, and even hide this time get wasted. So i thought, maybe I can stimulate some discussion on the topic of cache density for numbers sake and bad caches in general, and before anyone says why didn't you just post for a discussion instead of doing what I did, forget it. i have watched others on here get bashed for bucking the group, speaking out against TB mongers and crappy caches. This was the only way to get some attention, and it has. Love Me, Hate Me...everyone has had to think about it of late because of what I did.

No one has anything to worry about from me. I am not out to get KB. I am not out to get anyone. I am a geocacher like everyone else here. I love hunting for caches, but lets face facts. In the future things arn't going to get better for the activity. With growth comes consequence, and responsibility. The bigger this all gets, the more park systems will want to regulate it. It's hard enough now to find a good spot for a cache before some beats you to the punch...let's all think the next time we want to drop a cache..."Is this something I would enjoy finding" ,or "If I were someone that just stumbled on this, what message would it send about Geocaching"

Either way, the forum is open, why not use it. Speak your piece. If you hate me, go ahead and email me personally, don't clutter the forum. Instead lets use it to explore this issue. Maybe I am way off base in my thinking, however, several emails from geocachers, even some here, have made me believe otherwise. I urge the webmaster not to close this thread , we are all adults and can have an open discussion with out censorship hanging over our heads.

I make a promise to everyone here and now...If people can talk openly about this topic, wether it brings about change or not, I will NOT continue my plan to weed out garbage caches. I want everyone to have fun doing this..I really do. I know it sucks to go to a cache that is missing..that is why I made sure to let others know what I had done. I am holding all furthur action for the sake of peace..corny I know. i don't want anyone worried I might steal their cache..if it disappears, it won't be from me. I will be back to particpate in this discussion and am open to private discussion as well. Thanks for your time...sorry for upsetting everyone, but it needed to be done. I only hope I don't have to do it again.

The Cleaner
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Moe the Sleaze
Geocacher


Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1146

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a problem with another cacher, your first step should obviously be to get into a dialog with him or her. If that proves fruitless, a discussion here on the local boards, using your normal caching handle, is a good next option. Coming here anonymously expecting a sympathetic response is just plain chicken sh*t.
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-Moe, The Simpsons
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Irvingdog
Geocacher


Joined: 28 Mar 2003

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Ian has placed some second rate caches. Remind me again who you are that you feel empowered to decide which ones come and which ones go? That's right...no one. You're even to insecure and weak in your decision to do this to go by your real handle.

This sentence: I urge the webmaster not to close this thread , we are all adults and can have an open discussion with out censorship hanging over our heads. made me laugh out loud. YOU "censored" your own identity!! And the reality is, you have taken these actions for your own pitiful, self-serving motives!!!

So i thought, maybe I can stimulate some discussion on the topic of cache density for numbers sake and bad caches in general, and before anyone says why didn't you just post for a discussion instead of doing what I did, forget it. i have watched others on here get bashed for bucking the group, speaking out against TB mongers and crappy caches. This was the only way to get some attention, and it has. Love Me, Hate Me...everyone has had to think about it of late because of what I did. Sorry dude, your gonna get bashed either way on this subject, but this time more vociferously. You stole someone elses cache!!!! That is as lame as it gets.

Mind you; I've met Boreas once. Lets just say his lifestyle and mine don't exactly walk parallel lines. I've nailed him on this site as much as I've thanked him. But, (I hate to be redundant here) You stole someone elses cache!!!!

Think the cache was sub-par? That is what the "This Cache Should Be Archived" is for> If it gets clicked enough, a placer will have no say in the matter. Mods will squash the cache. A nice democratic process.


Vigilante at a key board. Real nice. Real mature.
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Last edited by Irvingdog on Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rickrich
Geocacher


Joined: 06 Jul 2003

Posts: 673

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Don't take caches; communicate with the owner first
2) Don't like KB caches, then don't hunt them.
    To be 100% honest, I place a lower priority on hunting them myself.
3) That park is *big*. There are plenty of places to hide more caches there. 0.1 mile is only 528 feet.

-Rick
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Kitch
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

me wrote:


I know it sucks to go to a cache that is missing..that is why I made sure to let others know what I had done.


EVEN 5 mins. is too slow!!!

If a person is brand new...on his first cache.....and just so happens to go to the cache that you STOLE....you just turned off one person from a HOBBY!!! Maybe an entire family ......think about my little 3yr old girl and try to explain to her why somebody steals. Yeah I have to explain crap like you.

Talk about being an adult.

Look I might not have the best spelling or grammer ...but I know how to make a point.
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s4xton
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 23 Mar 2003

Posts: 1070

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think the cleaner should go take out KB's Garbage Pail series. They're archived, and they need to be removed.

Get to work, cleaner!

-Aaron
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murph
Geocacher


Joined: 23 Jan 2004

Posts: 51

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cleaner, me or whatever you go by, how would you like it if someone took one of your caches just because he didn't like it?? If you think KB has bad caches then don't visit them. It is not up to you to decide what cache is good or not. It is up to you to decide who's your gonna visit or not. I personally have not been to any of KB's caches, but I do plan on getting to some of them this summer and I personally would be disapointed to get there and find out some yahoo stole it!!!! Once I have been to a few of KB's caches then I will make my own decision and I don't need you to tell me who's is bad and who's isn't.

murph
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2441

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am The Cleaner. everyone is ticked off at me for trashing out a junk cache.

That was not a junk cache. I don't remember that site's container, and I'm not gonna look. If it was rubbermaid, as most of them were, it was purchased for this purpose, and never used for anything else.

I received an e-mail concerning this type of container, and -15 degree weather. My reply was that I expected a bunch of the WC button caches to disappear, due to "imagined" value of older buttons. I also stated that the remainder would be upgraded with better containers.

I have wanted to drop a new cache for sometime, but everytime I seem to pick a spot..out goes a Boreas cache...It is troubling to have parks close to you that are basically off limits because someone decided they wanted to put another one of thercaches in that park,

I'm guessing here, because I'm not going to look, but I believe
that Centris archived the cache in April. If that's true, that prime area in Mounds Park was available for 8-9 months prior to my arrival.

What I can only describe as absolute garbage. A piece of plastic packaging from who knows what...stuffed in a zip lock. This beautiful spot was hogged up for that? Granted the premis was great, winter carnival button trade (which by the way i fully intend to drop those in another cache, more than likely a KB one, I wasn't trying to steal anything). The problem I had was that this was absolutly garbage. How long could anyone expect that cache to last with that for a conatiner. Not even an old cookie tin this time, just some piece of garbage KB didn't want to throw out.

I throw out lots of garbage. The containers I use are new, or thoroughly cleaned.

Oh my, and nice containers cost so much. Well...tough.

Nice

I'm not going to tell people what they should or shouldnt use for containers, I don't care.

Huh?

this just ticked me off...garabge. Anybody that visited that cache, I know you won't back me up on this because thats not in the nature of people in this group when it goes against the greater public opinion, but if any of you has it in them to post what it was like.....

All I can say is SAD....it was sad to see such a great spot, and even hide this time get wasted.

Where were you from May-December ?

maybe I can stimulate some discussion on the topic of cache density for numbers sake and bad caches in general, ... i have watched others on here get bashed for ... speaking out against ... crappy caches.


Did you happen to notice the Garbage Pail Kids cache thread? Did you happen to notice that 9 of the 10 were archived? (Aaron, Centris has picked up 4 of them, and I am planning to remove the rest soon. More on that later.)


This was the only way to get some attention, and it has. Love Me, Hate Me...everyone has had to think about it of late because of what I did.

It's hard enough now to find a good spot for a cache

agreed



The Cleaner

I guess I'd like to thank you for the post here. The problem I have is that there has been some dialogue on this forum about the things that concern you. When I asked for opinions concerning a series of caches, I asked for honesty, and got it. And it was not anonymous. That made a huge difference in how I accepted what was said.

Now that the topic of cache density has once again surfaced, we can all expect much closer scrutiny when submitting caches. Plan ahead.

Did I place 31 caches in January ? Yep, for two reasons. I thought of a theme that was generally well accepted, and the timing was perfect. I was also on a drive to reach a "milestone" BFD, right?

It was a number that I liked, and felt comfortable with. Once attained, a new plan was going to be activated. I alluded to this, to a few people I've talked to. I had planned a 'hiatus'. The time would be used to check out all multiple DNF's, remove any hopelessly trashed items, replace and/or upgrade containers. (I have 30+ ammo boxes ready for use.) I strongly felt that it was time to "retire" or at least go into hibernation.

This plan would be activated, and happening now, if "The Cleaner" had not appeared. I'm not going to let it appear that your action caused me to "retreat"

I'll be back searching maps, cities, parks for "green space" unless you want to dump your anonymous yahoo/aol smokescreen and identify yourself.
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whatsagps
Geocacher


Joined: 09 Feb 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been trying to stay out of this discussion, but I can't any longer. What is your problem Cleaner? This is supposed to be fun... you don't have to visit a cache if you don't like the owner. I happen to live extremly close to the park and cache in question. I admit I get a little urked when I see caches in parks close to me because I may have been considering a spot there, but that is part of the game. It happens, either you get out there and place your own, or you don't. I know this about KB, king of cache density or not, when I told him I checked on the cache and it was gone, he offered me the spot if I wanted it....which he very well may have done for you had you just asked. No one I Confused have met geocaching has bitten me yet. We all like the same game. It's too bad you resorted to such a stupid tactic. I have 2 caches...one I had to replace recently because of a the winter carnival and one that has gotten vandelized....they are both trash too...come get mine..infact just clean them all out..why would we want to have caches out there to go find if you think they are trash. This game is starting to lose it's appeal...thanks.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whatsagps wrote:
they are both trash too...

I kinda liked the basement cache myself. I don't particularly remember the container but I liked the surroundings for the cache.

Silent Bob
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towlebooth
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 26 Nov 2002

Posts: 1270

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cleaner - I do not appreicate you registering under a different name than the one you use geocaching. Please PM me with your actual handle and I will change it for you.

As for your activity let me say that in my opinion it is not your right to steal caches, regardless of the container. It is your right to contact the cache owner, geo-admins, etc. You could even make it your mission to contact a cache owner and offer to replace the container when you get permission.


Last edited by towlebooth on Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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whatsagps
Geocacher


Joined: 09 Feb 2004

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
whatsagps wrote:
they are both trash too...

I kinda liked the basement cache myself. I don't particularly remember the container but I liked the surroundings for the cache.

Silent Bob



I was being saracastic, I would much rather my caches not be plundered or cleaned Wink
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Irvingdog
Geocacher


Joined: 28 Mar 2003

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinda' quiet around here......

Where's that "meaningful dialogue", cleaner? Or how about at least a Mea Culpa?
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2441

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chad,

Did you block his access, or is he just not contributing?
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arrive...raise heck...leave (SCSA)
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2441

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

It is troubling to have parks close to you that are basically off limits because someone decided they wanted to put another one of thercaches in that park,



First the "Boreas Rex" cache, probably the "If I Fell" cache, and I bet the new "Indian Mounds Park" cache between them, too.

Looks like a pattern here.
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