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Dakota County Parks
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knowschad
Geocacher


Joined: 20 Jun 2005

Posts: 471

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Bart, old buddy. I knew I could count on you to test the system at my expense! LOL! I'm surprised you didn't upload a picture of a coffin!

Seriously, the more I think about it, it really would be in their best interest to ONLY have cache owner information. If I archive a cache in one of their parks, they aren't going to know that. Their database will soon be out of date and they won't even know it. They really should be relying on geocaching.com for everything except for cache owner contact information. I would have zero problem providing that.
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knowschad
Geocacher


Joined: 20 Jun 2005

Posts: 471

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody know how many caches there actually are in Dakota County parks? Does anybody know what it cost Dakota County taxpayers to come up with this policy and the website & database to enforce the policy? Has anybody divided #2 by #1? I doubt it, but somebody should have.

Particularly considering their own admission that, over the ten years of geocaching, they have only had two incidents, and both of those were really non-events.

Who do I not vote for in the next election?
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MNMizzou
Geocacher


Joined: 23 Feb 2005

Posts: 713

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
Pear Head wrote:
For those of you that are going to be pulling your caches due to the registration requirements I personally would encourage you to respond to Dakota County's email and tell them that your will be pulling your caches and WHY (or tell them through a direct email, letter, or phone call). It's that type of feedback from the end user that will be one factor in how this policy and future policies progress.


Uh, I actually did. And I exaggerate and paraphrase somewhat but I was more or less told, have fun hiking while you pull your caches.


To which if you really wanted to annoy them your answer should have been, "I'll just let you go fetch them after December 31st for me so I don't have to set foot in your parks again." Probably wouldn't have gone over well, but would have been amusing.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

knowschad wrote:
Does anybody know how many caches there actually are in Dakota County parks? Does anybody know what it cost Dakota County taxpayers to come up with this policy and the website & database to enforce the policy? Has anybody divided #2 by #1? I doubt it, but somebody should have.

Particularly considering their own admission that, over the ten years of geocaching, they have only had two incidents, and both of those were really non-events.

Who do I not vote for in the next election?


It's a good thing the County Attorney James Backstrom decided not to run again. I would have actively campaigned against him.. even though he claims to be in the same party as me.
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minnesotabrad
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Posts: 1267

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they want a policy fine but I do not get the continual changing of the guidelines and how it is to be registered. Will try and get some information on why the changes.
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knowschad
Geocacher


Joined: 20 Jun 2005

Posts: 471

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Brad. I agree. Last I heard, they said that registering on geocaching.com was fine with them. And now, this.

If it seems appropriate to the conversation, please let them know that this geocacher, at least, would have no problem giving them my contact information. But to provide redundant coordinates, cache name, container description, and possibly even photograph may well prove to be more than I am willing to put up with.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am now out of Lebanon Hills, childish or not. I was thinking of pulling them anyway and the silly policy gave me the motivation to finally do it.

I'll hold up Miesville until MNBrad and Speedsky get this thing worked out for us. Wink
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knowschad
Geocacher


Joined: 20 Jun 2005

Posts: 471

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I'm still waiting to see what happens as well.

Brad, if it helps in your negotiations, (probably too late for that) just one of my caches in the Schaar's Bluff area, Peace, Love, and Geocaching, has brought 170 visits to the park since June 7, 2008. While I appreciate their concern for the park, I consider their recent addition of stainless steel handrails on the stairs at the ravine at the south end of the park to be much more intrusive than an ammo box hidden in the woods so that the casual observer doesn't find it.

Since my caches have been hidden in that park:

A visitor's building has been built, housing Coca Cola dispensers.
A wind generator has been erected to power the Coca Cola dispensers.
A bridge has been built where we used to take trails.
A lookout has been built (very cool, but very man-made, with artificial animal tracks embedded in the concrete. Cute. )
Stainless steel handrails have been erected in the deep woods.

I'd like to know who is destroying more nature here... geocachers, or park management. Perhaps we should be setting up a website for them to register their "improvements".
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

Posts: 1991

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
I am now out of Lebanon Hills, childish or not. I was thinking of pulling them anyway and the silly policy gave me the motivation to finally do it.

I'll hold up Miesville until MNBrad and Speedsky get this thing worked out for us. Wink


It's speedysk1, speedy-s-k-one, not sky. Wink Laughing Laughing

But, in all seriousness, I don't think there's much we can do at this point.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedysk1 wrote:
bflentje wrote:
I am now out of Lebanon Hills, childish or not. I was thinking of pulling them anyway and the silly policy gave me the motivation to finally do it.

I'll hold up Miesville until MNBrad and Speedsky get this thing worked out for us. Wink


It's speedysk1, speedy-s-k-one, not sky. Wink Laughing Laughing

But, in all seriousness, I don't think there's much we can do at this point.


Yeah yeah, I know, I mistyped it. Please forgive me. You should see the attempts at spelling my name. Rolling Eyes
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RudeRat
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 798

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I to understand that if a geocacher hides tupperware in the park he must register it, but if a Letterboxer hides tupperware in the park he does not?
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

Posts: 1991

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RudeRat wrote:
Am I to understand that if a geocacher hides tupperware in the park he must register it, but if a Letterboxer hides tupperware in the park he does not?


You understand correctly. If you list caches on "other"websites that would be allowed too as there is no "Surfer Joe" for those groups. But I can't encourage that sort of behavior. Wink

To say the least, I'm very disappointed in this and how we've been treated by Dak Co. Our main contact that we had all of our preliminary meetings with, and who we built a good working relationship with, was put on a different assignment. The group that took over seem to care less to be frank. Every time I've asked questions, I've been told they know what they are doing and won't discuss it or even talk to me. They send me updates on everything, but won't take any feedback when we've questioned things.

Ok, enough venting. Have a good day.
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RudeRat
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 09 Jul 2008

Posts: 798

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Caches cannot be placed or constructed as to create a situation dangerous or potentially dangerous for park visitors.” - Before you place your cache, I’d recommend you think about the lawyer someone who has been injured will hire. The phrase “Potentially Dangerous” is wide open to interpretation. Think it through before placing anything greater than a 1.5/1.5 cache. Stepping off the trail can be potentially dangerous.

“Dakota County Parks retains the right to charge for administrative costs associated with excessive management of a particular cache” – Excessive is defined as exceeding a normal, usual amount. Normal is no management of a geocache site, so be prepared to pay if they walk out to check on one of your caches. Be prepared to pay a landscaper to repair a cacher trail. As ridiculous as this may sound, in today’s world, this stuff happens and you need to think about it. It’s up to them to decide if they want to enforce the policy, but if they do, you could get hit $$$!
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RudeRat wrote:
“Caches cannot be placed or constructed as to create a situation dangerous or potentially dangerous for park visitors.” - Before you place your cache, I’d recommend you think about the lawyer someone who has been injured will hire. The phrase “Potentially Dangerous” is wide open to interpretation. Think it through before placing anything greater than a 1.5/1.5 cache. Stepping off the trail can be potentially dangerous.

“Dakota County Parks retains the right to charge for administrative costs associated with excessive management of a particular cache” – Excessive is defined as exceeding a normal, usual amount. Normal is no management of a geocache site, so be prepared to pay if they walk out to check on one of your caches. Be prepared to pay a landscaper to repair a cacher trail. As ridiculous as this may sound, in today’s world, this stuff happens and you need to think about it. It’s up to them to decide if they want to enforce the policy, but if they do, you could get hit $$$!


Or worse. The sherriff's department may want to be reimbursed for making themselves look bad while they're investigating your malplaced cache.
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timewellspent
Geocacher


Joined: 19 Mar 2008

Posts: 706

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
RudeRat wrote:
“Caches cannot be placed or constructed as to create a situation dangerous or potentially dangerous for park visitors.” - Before you place your cache, I’d recommend you think about the lawyer someone who has been injured will hire. The phrase “Potentially Dangerous” is wide open to interpretation. Think it through before placing anything greater than a 1.5/1.5 cache. Stepping off the trail can be potentially dangerous.

“Dakota County Parks retains the right to charge for administrative costs associated with excessive management of a particular cache” – Excessive is defined as exceeding a normal, usual amount. Normal is no management of a geocache site, so be prepared to pay if they walk out to check on one of your caches. Be prepared to pay a landscaper to repair a cacher trail. As ridiculous as this may sound, in today’s world, this stuff happens and you need to think about it. It’s up to them to decide if they want to enforce the policy, but if they do, you could get hit $$$!


Or worse. The sherriff's department may want to be reimbursed for making themselves look bad while they're investigating your malplaced cache.


I'm glad you keep reminding us what brought on this new policy Rolling Eyes
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