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COTM two categories, Member and Premium Member?
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emmanogoldfish
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007

Posts: 106

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: COTM two categories, Member and Premium Member? Reply with quote

Shouldn't COTM nominations that are SOC's be a special category that only Groundspeak Inc. Premium Members be allowed to vote on? A Groundspeak Inc. Member does not have access to SOC's.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5708

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: COTM two categories, Member and Premium Member? Reply with quote

emmanogoldfish wrote:
Shouldn't COTM nominations that are SOC's be a special category that only Groundspeak Inc. Premium Members be allowed to vote on? A Groundspeak Inc. Member does not have access to SOC's.


It seems to me that would overly complicate the process that we have. Some months we have a hard enough time getting two caches to run against one another - breaking out any subscriber only caches just reduces the number and increases the work for the COTM maintainer.

I could see a rule addition to the COTM process that would exclude SOC's although I wouldn't support it for a number of reasons.

To me, if it's a SOC then it will possibly get less votes because some people can't see it - that's the cost of having a SOC in the first place.
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Draconisdax
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Nov 2007

Posts: 982

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: COTM two categories, Member and Premium Member? Reply with quote

emmanogoldfish wrote:
Shouldn't COTM nominations that are SOC's be a special category that only Groundspeak Inc. Premium Members be allowed to vote on? A Groundspeak Inc. Member does not have access to SOC's.

No matter what you think...those "Groundspeak Inc Premium Members" are not working for Groundspeak...

Premium Members are just members that pay a premium for additional services...for example...I am a premium member for the Pocket Querry option and instant notifications...I do not have special ties to Groundspeak...I don't receive any stock options...my caches are not treated any different by Surfer_Joe...I made a choice as a consumer to buy something...

I think of it as Apple Pie (Regular) and Apple Pie w/Ice Cream (Premium)

Similar to Pear Head...I would vote no on that topic...
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undoubtedly no. Though, I would agree that some effort should be made to nominate a cache accessible by all. But it should only be a guideline and not a rule.
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Jonas
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 30 Nov 2005

Posts: 672

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: COTM two categories, Member and Premium Member? Reply with quote

emmanogoldfish wrote:
Shouldn't COTM nominations that are SOC's be a special category that only Groundspeak Inc. Premium Members be allowed to vote on? A Groundspeak Inc. Member does not have access to SOC's.


I agree with Pear Head, that seems overly complicated. I was not aware that a subscriber only cache was nominated this month until now. I bet if you emailed the cache hider, he would probably send you the puzzle for you to solve (as it might give him another vote. Smile )

Update - I just spotted this in the nomination:
Minnstars wrote:
PS TWS means no offense at making this an SOC cache. He is just trying to protect his investment. He has told me that he would gladly send the cache page information to any non-member who requests it via email.


-Jonas
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Draconisdax
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Nov 2007

Posts: 982

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
Though, I would agree that some effort should be made to nominate a cache accessible by all. But it should only be a guideline and not a rule.


Why???

Clearly, the cacher that nominated the cache felt it was worth the nomination...being Premium Member Cache should not effect one's nomination of a cache he or she thinks is worthy of being COTM...at the very most, the status of the cache would effect the number of votes received...thus, really only effect the chances of actually winning...which, really only effects the owner of said cache...

If one doesn't like the fact that a cache is a Premium Member Only Cache...then don't vote for said cache...fairly simple and straight forward solution...
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timewellspent
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008

Posts: 706

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: COTM two categories, Member and Premium Member? Reply with quote

Jonas wrote:
emmanogoldfish wrote:
Shouldn't COTM nominations that are SOC's be a special category that only Groundspeak Inc. Premium Members be allowed to vote on? A Groundspeak Inc. Member does not have access to SOC's.


I agree with Pear Head, that seems overly complicated. I was not aware that a subscriber only cache was nominated this month until now. I bet if you emailed the cache hider, he would probably send you the puzzle for you to solve (as it might give him another vote. Smile )

Update - I just spotted this in the nomination:
Minnstars wrote:
PS TWS means no offense at making this an SOC cache. He is just trying to protect his investment. He has told me that he would gladly send the cache page information to any non-member who requests it via email.


-Jonas


When Minnstars said he was going to nominate my cache for COTM, I told him I didn't even think it would be allowed for the reasons stated above. I did tell him that if anyone that was not a premium member and wanted to find my cache I would be happy to send them the puzzle and link to the checker if they wanted to find it. I have no problem giving hints to any of my puzzles or hand the coords over to people that don't do puzzles since I want people to find my caches.

-DK
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Millah
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007

Posts: 67

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 1 1/2 cents (we're in a recession folks)...

I agree with Pear Head that SOC caches are self-limiting; in theory, less finders equals less votes. In the history of COTM existence (as far as I can tell) this is the first time that a SOC has been nominated. Certainly, the spirit of the COTM process is to recognize the efforts of MN hiders by showcasing remarkable caches -- NOT to disclude others. That spirit seems to have been upheld with the current SOC nomination as TWS appears willing to e-mail the cache page to interested non-premium members. So, IMHO, this is at present a non-issue. I do, however, feel that being proactive is better than being reactive so if you (emmanogoldfish) continue to feel strongly about this I would encourage you to take it to the MnGCA board via PM as an agenda item for the upcoming board meeting.
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArcherDragoon wrote:
bflentje wrote:
Though, I would agree that some effort should be made to nominate a cache accessible by all. But it should only be a guideline and not a rule.


Why???

Clearly, the cacher that nominated the cache felt it was worth the nomination...being Premium Member Cache should not effect one's nomination of a cache he or she thinks is worthy of being COTM...at the very most, the status of the cache would effect the number of votes received...thus, really only effect the chances of actually winning...which, really only effects the owner of said cache...

If one doesn't like the fact that a cache is a Premium Member Only Cache...then don't vote for said cache...fairly simple and straight forward solution...


I am guessing with your 3 ?'s that your challenging me. Look, I am in your camp on this as I don't believe in the notion of MOC or SOC be elitist. I am just suggesting it as a guideline simply to make people aware that a nominated cache may not be accessible by all and may be a losing proposition if it were nominated.

I'll find MOC caches any day of the week. But I would NEVER hide my own cache as MOC. If I am that worried about it, I will use other methods such making it a multi, a puzzle, or just a more discreet traditional. My Coughin Up A Lung is a perfect example of protecting hours and hours worth of work on a cache by requiring cachers to find 12 other caches first.
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Draconisdax
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Joined: 02 Nov 2007

Posts: 982

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
I am guessing with your 3 ?'s that your challenging me.


Um...no...sorry, I have a habit using punctuation in triplicate!!!

Wink Laughing Wink

It was just a rhetorical question...
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GeoPierce
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005

Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: COTM two categories, Member and Premium Member? Reply with quote

timewellspent wrote:
I have no problem giving hints to any of my puzzles or hand the coords over to people that don't do puzzles since I want people to find my caches.

Can I have the coords, please? Laughing

I don't think they should be divided either.
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1013

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArcherDragoon wrote:
Clearly, the cacher that nominated the cache felt it was worth the nomination...being Premium Member Cache should not effect one's nomination of a cache he or she thinks is worthy of being COTM...at the very most, the status of the cache would effect the number of votes received...thus, really only effect the chances of actually winning...which, really only effects the owner of said cache...

I think the "puzzle" status of this cache is going to have much more effect on the number of votes than the "SOC" status. Smile
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Draconisdax
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Nov 2007

Posts: 982

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
ArcherDragoon wrote:
Clearly, the cacher that nominated the cache felt it was worth the nomination...being Premium Member Cache should not effect one's nomination of a cache he or she thinks is worthy of being COTM...at the very most, the status of the cache would effect the number of votes received...thus, really only effect the chances of actually winning...which, really only effects the owner of said cache...

I think the "puzzle" status of this cache is going to have much more effect on the number of votes than the "SOC" status. Smile


A puzzle won last month Wink
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msteffel
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Joined: 15 Jun 2007

Posts: 415

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe puzzle caches should have their own category... after all puzzle caches are the only challenging ones out there. I mean a traditional cache... you've already got the coordinates... how hard could they possibly to find?!

Please note: This post was intended as a joke, anyone taking it seriously just needs to look at my DNF total and you'll know the joke is on me.
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2442

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: COTM two categories, Member and Premium Member? Reply with quote

emmanogoldfish wrote:
A Groundspeak Inc. Member does not have access to SOC's.


Go on the Groundspeak, Inc. geocaching forum and search for "backdoor"

... or ask your buddy Michael.
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