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Global Warming
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Arcticabn
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Joined: 30 Nov 2003

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey it's all about Global Warming. So I guess someplace on the Globe all of the heat is being sucked out of the Midwest. Razz
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arcticabn wrote:
Hey it's all about Global Warming. So I guess someplace on the Globe all of the heat is being sucked out of the Midwest. Razz


Don't get me started... global warming, sure to be one of the greatest scams in the history of the planet if not the universe. You will be seeing the economy collapsing here in the next couple of years not from the warming, but from the biofuel production.
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minnesotabrad
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Posts: 1267

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
Don't get me started... global warming, sure to be one of the greatest scams in the history of the planet if not the universe. You will be seeing the economy collapsing here in the next couple of years not from the warming, but from the biofuel production.


I agree. Here is a good website http://www.globalclimatescam.com/
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spinowner
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are all free to believe what we want. However, there is enough evidence that the temperature of the low atmosphere is currently increasing that it is now accepted as fact by a vast majority of those people who have studied the data. What is far from clear (and what generates the controversy) is how and why it is happening, what, if anything, should be done about it and what, if any, impact it will have in future years.
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Arcticabn
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spinowner wrote:
We are all free to believe what we want. However, there is enough evidence that the temperature of the low atmosphere is currently increasing that it is now accepted as fact by a vast majority of those people who have studied the data. What is far from clear (and what generates the controversy) is how and why it is happening, what, if anything, should be done about it and what, if any, impact it will have in future years.


By the vast majority, I think not. Particularly since the data is skewed for only the last 100 years. And according to the same data the temps have been stable for the last 8 to 10 years.

Let's see, Science has also said that there have been 5 Ice ages on earth. So that would also mean 5 global warming periods since I'm not living on an ice flow currently.

No the controversy is that there are some that want us ALL to believe that they are the only ones who have the answer and that they must dictate to us how we must live our lives. When you hear them make statements that the look forward to $5 a gallon gasoline you have to wonder why. Well it is easy to figure out. All of their methods of creating fuel are less efficient and more costly then our current fuels. So the only way that they can justify forcing their views/policies on us is if it the current fuels become to so costly that their less efficient methods eventually hit that break even point or become cost effective. They do this by preventing us from exploring, drilling, digging and what ever else we have to do. Continue to restrict our ability to get the cheap fuel and therefore drive the cost up.

Trust me, once gasoline and other fossil fuels get to a certain point, all of the subsidies that are currently being shelled out will go away. And that money will then be used to subsidize some other force fed policy.

I remember the huge controversy about the Alaskan Pipeline. How it would destroy the environment. How it would prevent the migration of countless herds of animals. How it out be a natural disaster and spill billions of gallons of oil onto the tundra. Well it's been in operation for more that 30 years now and not one of the events have happened.

When you hear comments from them that Mankind is a plague on the earth and that our numbers need to be reduce significantly so that the earth can survive. I guess you can figure out who they want removed from the earth.
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Pear Head
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Joined: 04 Apr 2004

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This can be a very "heated" subject at times. If it remains polite then I think everyone will be happy. If it turns ugly then the moderators won't hesitate to lock it.

Thanks for your cooperation.
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Arcticabn
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Won't turn ugly by me. I've said my piece.
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spinowner
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to point out that I am not advocating any point of view here, but rather just stating what I have read. "Vast majority" was probably not the most accurate description. "Large majority" is closer. And I am referring to atmospheric scientists who have studied the data, not politicians or radio talk show hosts or people like me who post to web sites but don't have enough background in the subject area for my opinion to be credible.
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Last edited by spinowner on Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pfalstad
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arcticabn wrote:
When you hear them make statements that the look forward to $5 a gallon gasoline you have to wonder why. Well it is easy to figure out. All of their methods of creating fuel are less efficient and more costly then our current fuels. So the only way that they can justify forcing their views/policies on us is if it the current fuels become to so costly that their less efficient methods eventually hit that break even point or become cost effective. They do this by preventing us from exploring, drilling, digging and what ever else we have to do. Continue to restrict our ability to get the cheap fuel and therefore drive the cost up.

Is that why the price of crude oil has gone up 400% in the last eight years? I wish President Bush hadn't worked so hard to protect the environment from the oil companies... Wink
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bflentje
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concede that there may be warming but only if you read the documented record of the last 120 or so years, excluding the last five or so years. But the causes of that warming are the question. The bottom line is, the debate is NOT over, no matter what reverend Al Gore says. Solar activity IS THE dominant factor in climate dynamics.

Does that mean we should not care about the world we live in? Absolutely not. We should still protect it, but NOT at ANY or ALL costs.

There are two sides to this debate: Those that buy into Al Gore's religion hook, line and sinker, without accepting any critical thought outside of "the agenda". And those like me who are skeptical but are willing to listen to BOTH sides... I am willing to accept that I am wrong, but I doubt it will happen. Although it may take a few years. Until then, I'll keep shelling out the cache to fill the Tahoe for as long as I can afford it.

HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS ARE THE WAY TO GO. Clean and middle east free. Not sure about cost.
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speedysk1
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:

HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS ARE THE WAY TO GO. Clean and middle east free. Not sure about cost.

I love the fuel cell technology. It is the way to go. I've followed it since I was 10 or so...ok, so I was a science geek. That was supposed to be the next big thing and all cars would be running on it within the next 10-15 years. Well that was over 20 years ago. It's safe, clean and abundant. I think we might all be generating our own power in the future too and not need to rely on the electric companies to supply use power.
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bflentje
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedysk1 wrote:
bflentje wrote:

HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS ARE THE WAY TO GO. Clean and middle east free. Not sure about cost.

I love the fuel cell technology. It is the way to go. I've followed it since I was 10 or so...ok, so I was a science geek. That was supposed to be the next big thing and all cars would be running on it within the next 10-15 years. Well that was over 20 years ago. It's safe, clean and abundant. I think we might all be generating our own power in the future too and not need to rely on the electric companies to supply use power.


Hydrogen is abundant in the form of water. At this time, it takes plenty of energy to break water into its elemental form. But I can't wait until we wean ourselves from the middle east. When that happens, the middle east will most likely whither away hopefully taking a lot of the problems with them... or maybe, problems will get worse. Who knows.
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bflentje
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
speedysk1 wrote:
bflentje wrote:

HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS ARE THE WAY TO GO. Clean and middle east free. Not sure about cost.

I love the fuel cell technology. It is the way to go. I've followed it since I was 10 or so...ok, so I was a science geek. That was supposed to be the next big thing and all cars would be running on it within the next 10-15 years. Well that was over 20 years ago. It's safe, clean and abundant. I think we might all be generating our own power in the future too and not need to rely on the electric companies to supply use power.


Hydrogen is abundant in the form of water. At this time, it takes plenty of energy to break water into its elemental form. But I can't wait until we wean ourselves from the middle east. When that happens, the middle east will most likely whither away hopefully taking a lot of the problems with them... or maybe, problems will get worse. Who knows.


Forgot to mention, a byproduct of H2 combustion is water vapor. Don't forget that water vapor is the number one largest volume of green house gas in the atmosphere...
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merkman
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Joined: 03 Jun 2006

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't hold your breath.


Allis-Chalmers Fuel-Cell Tractor circa. 1959


In October 1959, this Allis-Chalmers tractor successfully plowed a field of alfalfa in West Allis, WI--its 20-horsepower motor run not by a standard battery but by what was then the largest operational fuel-cell unit in the world.

That is almost 50 years ago.
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speedysk1
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

merkman wrote:
Don't hold your breath.
Allis-Chalmers Fuel-Cell Tractor circa. 1959

WOW! I didn't know about that tractor. I did know the technology has been around for a long time though. But a boy can dream can't he. Laughing
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