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Isanti City Parks
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EskoClimber wrote:
I disagree. We need to look at the long term here. If we have a problem with a cache in an area without a policy it is more likely to end up as a ban with a long uphill battle to get geocaching reinstated.

Based on my experience you'll never convince me of that in 99% of the cases.

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
The fact of the matter is that geocaching does have its own issues seperate from other visitors, maintenance, volunteer trails, senstive areas, to name a few. We need to be receptive to the concerns of the parks.

Yet something else you will not convince me of in 99% of the cases. Unless they specifically prohibit you from leaving items in the park (while they're being maintained -- such as the DNR's abandoned property regulations) they don't need anything that a normal park visitor would need.

Sensitive foo -- my favorite example! If it's off limits for the general public and listed as such in their rules and regulations (i.e. no off-trail hiking rules) then it applies to geocachers as well. If no such provision is listed for regular park visitors then there is absolutely no reason why it should be for us.

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
I disagree. The agency is trying to address their issues and give themselves options short of the banning geocaching completely from their system.

I lost you there I guess. If we're at the possible ban stage then the negotiations have failed and a policy is necessary. Before that it's not.
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EskoClimber
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 813

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many parks have sensitive areas. You might not believe this but many parks protect their sensitive areas by not advertising their existence.

I'll give you two examples from Jay Cooke SP.

Indian archelogical sites
Lady slipper areas

It is much better to avoid an area that would cause harm by knowing ahead of time than getting a knee jerk reaction after the fact.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a serious oversight by park managers to honestly believe that not having an off-trail hiking policy and not advertising the locations of these sensitive areas will keep them from being disturbed.

Park managers love to quote sensitive areas when they list of reasons why there shouldn't be geocaches but they don't like to hear that they are doing nothing to stop everyone else from stumbling onto them.
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merkman
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 03 Jun 2006

Posts: 2032

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
Unless they specifically prohibit you from leaving items in the park


They do.... it is called littering.
In my take of park laws.
In general....
Finding a cache is not illegal
Placing a cache without permission is. (Littering)
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have removed this topic from my watchlist as well. Carry on Smile
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minnesotabrad
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Posts: 1264

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As it stands now geocaching is banned in Isanti, they asked that caches be removed. For all we know they may decide not to allow it any longer. I hope merman has a voice that is heard and they do not take that route. The results have yet to be seen. Also I do not think I would classify geocaching as littering. I have plans to remove my caches at some point unless a muggle beats me to it. I pay my fair share of taxes and feel that I should be able to use parks for an activity I enjoy. I think most of us want geocaching to continue and as it grows in popularity there will be those that don't cache responsibly. We need to teach responsible geocaching.
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EskoClimber
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 813

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
I have removed this topic from my watchlist as well. Carry on Smile


That is one thing I like about you, SB. You ignore reality if you don't like it.

As far as parks not advertising the location of sensitive areas goes, that is not only done by parks here in Minnesota, it is also done at the national level. For example, the north unit of Teddy Roosevelt National Park doesn't advertise that the hiking trail at the eastern edge of the park goes through a vast forest of petrivied wood. The few people that actually hike the trail are responsible enough to leave it alone. I talked to the staff there about it.
Bury your head in the sand all you like, its a common practice.
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EskoClimber
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 813

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minnesotabrad wrote:
As it stands now geocaching is banned in Isanti.

That is true. And I'm sure it will be back. This will be good for this obsession of ours in the long run. I have great hopes that this will help with getting Anoka County something positive to view.
minnesotabrad wrote:
I think most of us want geocaching to continue and as it grows in popularity there will be those that don't cache responsibly. We need to teach responsible geocaching.

I agree completely. The good news about having a policy in place is that should a problem arise there will options to deal with that one cache rather than have an overreaction by the powers that be.
Responsible placements and maintenance are important.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5692

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has strayed off topic for too long.

If you're posting about Isanti in particular then post here.

If you're posting about the MnGCA's direction regarding contacting parks then post here:

Arrow http://www.mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2241

Anything else here other than Isanti is off topic.
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merkman
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 03 Jun 2006

Posts: 2032

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
This has strayed off topic for too long.

If you're posting about Isanti in particular then post here.

If you're posting about the MnGCA's direction regarding contacting parks then post here:

Arrow http://www.mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2241

Anything else here other than Isanti is off topic.


Thanks Pearhead this was getting confusing.
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hansej
Geocacher


Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Isanti Parks Reply with quote

Merk,

If there is another board meeting where this issue is being addressed, please post a message. I'd be willing to provide some support if needed. I'd think some other passionate cachers would too.

Thanks,
~hansej
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merkman
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 03 Jun 2006

Posts: 2032

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The process is continuing.

The draft has been created and here is a status of where we are at.

Code:
I will be forwarding the item on to the Police Department, just to make sure that they are comfortable with what is being proposed.  I will then be taking the item to the next park and recreation board meeting for their review and recommendation.  Once they have given their recommendation, the item will be presented to the City Council.  Once approved, we should be up and running.  I will keep you informed of where we are in the process.

Again, thank you for your assistance with this item, it is greatly appreciated. 

Lisa M. Krause, AICP
City Planner
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EskoClimber
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 813

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent. This is exactly what we need. We should forward the agony that you've gone through to the Anoka County Committee HOPEFULLY to expedite the process.
The Committee could see that the PD should be informed as well as the Parks dept to help head off any delays in the process.
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Moe the Sleaze
Geocacher


Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1145

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

merkman wrote:
The process is continuing.

The draft has been created and here is a status of where we are at.


Can you give us some idea of what direction they are going in? Are they looking at requiring registration?
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minnesotabrad
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Posts: 1264

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wondering what the status of this is. I got a little concerned when I saw most all of Merkman's caches were archived instead of disabled. Thanks for any info.
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