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Check out this cache - "The Gauntlet"
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5savages
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Feb 2005

Posts: 204

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CamoCacher wrote:

I never noticed that but I honestly didn't take the time to look at all the logs out there to see there were no DNF's. Might have tipped me off if I had. Rolling Eyes


that's why I say, "in retrospect". I didn't notice it either until after finding out the truth about the cache.
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CamoCacher
Geocacher


Joined: 05 Dec 2005

Posts: 1391

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5savages wrote:
CamoCacher wrote:

I never noticed that but I honestly didn't take the time to look at all the logs out there to see there were no DNF's. Might have tipped me off if I had. Rolling Eyes


that's why I say, "in retrospect". I didn't notice it either until after finding out the truth about the cache.


I know, I was just trying to explain that yes I am a dumba@@!
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1009
Location: Edina

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for letting us know.. That's too far to go for a joke. I talked to some people who were sure it was real. In fact, one reason I didn't go with you is that I thought it would be way too hard until winter.
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EskoClimber
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 810
Location: Duluth area

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not happy with the concept of a "Liar's Cache" as it was implemented in the case of the Gauntlet. I did head down even after I found out that it was fake because I was going to put out a real "gauntlet" and I wanted to be able to say that the one I'm planning is not a fake cache.
We discussed the story line at dinner and I filled in my bit and I'm leaving my log on the page because after all that I wasn't going to DNF that "thing", espicially after the time and effort I put into that narrative.
I was unhappy and uncomfortable keeping a straight face when I discussed the cache with MNFlyers and didn't tell him the truth about the find. After CamoCacher killed off Polarone I immediately called him up and fessed up. I'm old enough to know better. I'm not happy with myself for that lapse in judgement.
I appreciate that RD35 and CamoCacher refused to post finds but rather put notes on the page blowing the cover, thank you.
Like everyone else, had I spent more time reading the logs and noting the lack of DNFs it would have been obvious that something was rotten in the Dells.
We assumed that there was a real cache for all the obvious reasons. The terrain ratings, posted as a multi (its not), Cache of the Month, etc, all pointed to a cache worth doing, a chance to really get out and hunt down a tough cache.
I'm hoping that this type of cache is an aberration and will go away, soon.
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celticwulf
Geocacher


Joined: 24 Oct 2005

Posts: 685
Location: Eagan, MN

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I've finally been following this some (the whole thread started while I was on hiatus Wink ), I am slightly amused for a couple reasons. First off, when red went back and edited her "find" to a "note", it actually stayed up on the page for a while. Since it was further down the page, the cache owner must have missed the edit right away, since that doesn't get emailed to anyone. I'm also amused that now it has been deleted.

The sad part is, when I first heard about a "liars" cache, I actually thought it was a kinda neat idea...but then again, I'm the type that would have made sure it smelled fishy from the start and not making the whole thing out to be some epic cache. I'm figuring something in the description of being abducted by aliens while searching for the cache or something Laughing

But I agree with the feelings here about the way the guantlet is designed. It's a BAD cache from the fact that you'll subject people to this type of buildup only to have it dashed. The only reason anyone who knew about the cache ahead of time would find the trip from MN amusing is if they were small minded people who enjoy other's pain. I feel bad for any of the WI cachers who've been caught up in this lie. And thanks to everyone who did do this cache and has opened up about it...when I first read Esko's post I actually was thinking about giving Lucid a call so we could run and see if we could find the blood from the evac Wink Although I do love the fact that the story has you still going for the cache with Polar injured...sounds familar for some reason Laughing

Sorry, was just feeling like commenting...

CW
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DLHCacher
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 02 Nov 2005

Posts: 325
Location: Duluth, MN

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first heard of "The Gauntlet" I was very intrigued. Knowing that a group of MN cachers were going to make an assault on such a hard cache made me seriously think of changing my weekend plans so I could join them.

If I had changed my plans and joined them, I would be extremely angry. Some of that anger would have to be directed at myself. No DNF's should have been a huge clue and the alien abduction log was the other big give away. The name could have been a clue. I had not gone through and read all the logs until after the fact. Finally, the last clue, go look at other finders' other logs for the day. The last posted finder on "The Gauntlet" found 18 caches total that day.

The story from this group was plausible because I believe that someone could die while caching. I had it one my watch list, and when PolarOne was supposedly a goner, I called EskoClimber. It was his response that made me realize something was not right and that is when I started investigating further. Barnum is right, there is a sucker born very minute. It was Barnum who said that, right?

Now I may be in the minority, but I do not have a problem with the liars cache concept. The real issue is in the implementation and I am not sure you can implement a successful liars cache that does not anger anyone.

My ideas for trying to implement a successful liars cache:

1. It probably has to be a multi near some type of tough terrain or a very unique setting.

2. It cannot be a cache that draws too much attention and/or makes a lot of cachers want to get it. In the case of "The Gauntlet", the supposed physical challange was way too enticing. On the other hand, it may need to seem to be so hard that 99% of all cachers will not even attempt it.

3. It still needs to be a worth while cache. A simple cache in a PWA does not cut it.

4. Even if you need to make dummy accounts, DNF's need to be in the logs.

5. You will probably have to accept bogus log dates on the cache page to make it seem plausible.

6. The cache owner needs to come clean to people making an extra effort to get the cache. In this case, Lil Otter should have contacted the involved cachers and warned them so they could change their minds.

7. Once the cache has been exposed, smile, post a note thanking everyone who helped make the cache a success for however long it was successful, come clean, and archive it.

Just the simple ramblings of a raving lunatic! (Pear Head will attest to my snity or lack there of.)
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5690
Location: north of Duluth

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DLHCacher wrote:
Just the simple ramblings of a raving lunatic! (Pear Head will attest to my snity or lack there of.)


DLHCacher wrote:
That person must be an idiot to do something like that.

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Dances With Beehives
Geocacher


Joined: 12 Sep 2003

Posts: 671
Location: Chaska

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI - The Lil Otter archived The Gauntlet.. Let the Games Begin!!

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=ce546bdf-10eb-4ee1-bba5-ef8a4e9fb873
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1009
Location: Edina

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm.. maybe that's because of a public bookmark placed on the page, placed by a certain pale-footed cacher..
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LucidOndine
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 17 Jan 2006

Posts: 1931
Location: Under Some Rock

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree... certain pale footed individuals are saving others from a lot of potential dissapointment. After all, she can't delete a bookmark.
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EskoClimber
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 810
Location: Duluth area

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm out for the Gauntlet Survivors Reunion. what a load of...
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CamoCacher
Geocacher


Joined: 05 Dec 2005

Posts: 1391

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EskoClimber wrote:
I'm out for the Gauntlet Survivors Reunion. what a load of...


More like a beat the &^*&R#@# out of ......... Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil
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Red_Devil35
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 26 Apr 2006

Posts: 3090
Location: Practically South Dakota!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LucidOndine wrote:
I agree... certain pale footed individuals are saving others from a lot of potential dissapointment. After all, she can't delete a bookmark.


I can't take all the credit, the idea was given to me by a sly WeekNighter!
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GeoPierce
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Nov 2005

Posts: 1657
Location: Eden Prairie, MN

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red_Devil35 wrote:
LucidOndine wrote:
I agree... certain pale footed individuals are saving others from a lot of potential dissapointment. After all, she can't delete a bookmark.

I can't take all the credit, the idea was given to me by a sly WeekNighter!

If only the bookmarks were alphabetical.
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celticwulf
Geocacher


Joined: 24 Oct 2005

Posts: 685
Location: Eagan, MN

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red_Devil35 wrote:
LucidOndine wrote:
I agree... certain pale footed individuals are saving others from a lot of potential dissapointment. After all, she can't delete a bookmark.


I can't take all the credit, the idea was given to me by a sly WeekNighter!


Now who would go and give you such an evil idea like that??? Part of the weeknight crew...wow, and I thought they were all fine upstandi...

oh, wait...nevermind...

Celticwulf
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