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Cache Hides Requiring "Stealth"
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drat19
Geocacher


Joined: 21 Sep 2003

Posts: 377

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
Minnesota gave me a scouting report last night and I forgot about it until now:

Quote:
Just a little info for you guys on Sly Fox. It is in a narrow 200' tree
line between two homes. I am not even sure it is still park land. The
home on the left has to be 25 million The guest house is 3x the size of our
home. Anyway, a large group there at night with flashlights, equals
bring your ID, the cops will be asking for it : )

On the bright side, they all are easy caches. Find time will be less than a
minute on each.

Thanks Minnesota!


A 200' tree line between 2 homes? Not the brightest place in the world to hide a cache. Sigh. (On the bright side, at least after the cops question us and the neighbors complain, the hider will have to remove/archive it!). (Sorry to criticize the hider before even finding it, but these caches hidden in locations right next to houses/backyards need to stop! I don't cache with the purpose of being questioned by police...muggle-dodging is NOT fun to me.)

Someone bring the Strib article!
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drat19 wrote:
(Sorry to criticize the hider before even finding it, but these caches hidden in locations right next to houses/backyards need to stop! I don't cache with the purpose of being questioned by police...muggle-dodging is NOT fun to me.)

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=b121c104-736b-49c3-b53b-5a9b428573b3
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Surfer Joe
Minnesota Reviewer


Joined: 18 Jan 2006

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just a little info for you guys on Sly Fox. It is in a narrow 200' tree
line between two homes. I am not even sure it is still park land. The
home on the left has to be 25 million The guest house is 3x the size of our
home. Anyway, a large group there at night with flashlights, equals
bring your ID, the cops will be asking for it : )


According to the city map on Edina's web site the cache is in Fox Meadow Park.
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drat19
Geocacher


Joined: 21 Sep 2003

Posts: 377

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surfer Joe wrote:
According to the city map on Edina's web site the cache is in Fox Meadow Park.


Yeah, it meets the approval guidelines. Doesn't mean it's a smart hide (which is not your concern, of course, I know that...you just need to enforce the cache guidelines).

That cache you went after last weekend was also "in the park". How'd *that* work out for ya, hmmmm? Razz Shocked Cool Laughing


Last edited by drat19 on Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Surfer Joe
Minnesota Reviewer


Joined: 18 Jan 2006

Posts: 199

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drat19 wrote:
Yeah, and that cache you went after last weekend was also "in the park". How'd *that* work out for ya, hmmmm? Razz Shocked Cool Laughing Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


That wasn't me, that was some sleaze. Wink

I'm not saying the cache was placed wisely, only that it appears to be on public land, something Minnesota expressed some doubt of.
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drat19
Geocacher


Joined: 21 Sep 2003

Posts: 377

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surfer Joe wrote:
drat19 wrote:
Yeah, and that cache you went after last weekend was also "in the park". How'd *that* work out for ya, hmmmm? Razz Shocked Cool Laughing Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


That wasn't me, that was some sleaze. Wink

I'm not saying the cache was placed wisely, only that it appears to be on public land, something Minnesota expressed some doubt of.


You read my mind...see my edited post above, which I was typing just as you replied... Wink
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spinowner
Geocacher


Joined: 25 Nov 2004

Posts: 585

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While there are cachers who don't like caches that require stealth, many cachers do. Not all caches are appropriate for a group hunt after dark, especially if the cachers are in a boisterous mood. Hiding a container that looks like a pipe bomb in the bushes in front of a federal courthouse is probably a bad idea, but I think it's good that there are caches listed that require stealth for those who like that type of challenge. If a particular cache is not what you like, don't go after it. But don't call them bad hides just because you happen not to like that type of cache.
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drat19
Geocacher


Joined: 21 Sep 2003

Posts: 377

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spinowner wrote:
While there are cachers who don't like caches that require stealth, many cachers do. Not all caches are appropriate for a group hunt after dark, especially if the cachers are in a boisterous mood. Hiding a container that looks like a pipe bomb in the bushes in front of a federal courthouse is probably a bad idea, but I think it's good that there are caches listed that require stealth for those who like that type of challenge. If a particular cache is not what you like, don't go after it. But don't call them bad hides just because you happen not to like that type of cache.


You're right, to each their own. And I mean that seriously, respectfully, and with no sarcasm. If I know ahead of time from the cache description and/or logs that it's a needs-stealth kind of hide, I do generally skip it.

On the other hand, if you don't know you're going to be searching up against some homeowner's backyard fence until you get there, and by then either the police have been called or the homeowner comes out and confronts you, well sorry, that's a bad hide or at least a bad cache page (that searchers were not pre-warned about this possibility).

I am so sick of this "if you don't like it don't search for it" counter-argument. One often doesn't know a cache s*cks until one has already taken the time and effort to make the search. True, over time in a given area I do learn to avoid certain hiders' caches, but only after I've wasted some amount of time to learn that.

Feel free to respectfully disagree if you so choose, but that is my opinion, respectfully submitted.

So are these: Dave's Opinions on Geocache Hiding


Last edited by drat19 on Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take the disagreements about cache types, cache pages, and cache hides to PM. Cool?
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Moe the Sleaze
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1145

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
Take the disagreements about cache types, cache pages, and cache hides to PM. Cool?


I think a polite debate on what makes a good hide or not is a very valid topic for public discussion. Split it off into its own thread, sure, but please don't squash it.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
Take the disagreements about cache types, cache pages, and cache hides to PM. Cool?


I think a polite debate on what makes a good hide or not is a very valid topic for public discussion. Split it off into its own thread, sure, but please don't squash it.

I can't win.
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spinowner
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Joined: 25 Nov 2004

Posts: 585

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I chose not to PM about this point because I think open discussion on this point is good. I will say that I agree with Dave in that I think it is the duty of the cache owner to make searchers aware of what they will be encountering at the cache site. Stating that stealth will be required is the same principle as telling people about any other conditions at the cache site, be it terrain, requirements for tools, the need to project with your receiver, whatever. If the cache is legally placed and searchers are aware of what is in store for them it becomes a matter of personal taste. It's perfectly legitimate to have the opinion that a cache s***s, but that doesn't make it a bad cache for everyone. Someone else's equally legitimate opinion could be that the cache is great.
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Moe the Sleaze
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1145

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spinowner wrote:
While there are cachers who don't like caches that require stealth, many cachers do. Not all caches are appropriate for a group hunt after dark, especially if the cachers are in a boisterous mood.


There are caches that require the kind of stealth where you stand around on a street corner pretending your GPSr is a cell phone until you think no one is looking. I can understand some people enjoying that kind of hide (I don't).

What drat was talking about are caches hidden on public property but very close to and in full view of private homes. I suppose some people might enjoy that kind of hide, but I have a hard time understanding why. Twice in the past week, I have been approached by concerned homeowners while looking for this kind of cache. In one case, the homeowner had recently had things stolen out of his garage. Who could blame him for being nervous about seeing a string of people lurking around in the trees behind his house?

Some one (not me) has hidden a cache about 100 feet behind my house on public property. This time of year, the area is fully exposed and I have watched several people search for it from the windows of my house. I think it's funny because I know what's going on. I imagine some of my neighbors aren't so keen on it .

I don't feel comfortable knowing that I may be making someone uncomfortable in their own home. That doesn't make for enjoyable caching in my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
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Last edited by Moe the Sleaze on Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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celticwulf
Geocacher


Joined: 24 Oct 2005

Posts: 685

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the one problem I've seen is "stealth required" is really open to interpetation. I'm finding this out as I'm trying to figure out the description for a cache I'm hiding where I know stealth will be required in the summer to avoid the cache being muggled, but it's going to be in a park so it's not a "you're on private property" issue. But I've seen other caches that are "stealth required" because it's an iffy situation on placement...the placement is legal but also can be seen as questionable.

I would say for sure it's up to the cache hider to make sure the warnings are in place for people prior to the search...and if they aren't there on some questionable ones, it's up to us as finders to let them know they may want to add some warning information on the cache page. And we all need to work together, especially if the person is new at hiding caches, to make sure we do NOT make them decide that hiding is not worth it. I've seen a few caches where the finders were not so diplomatic about thier opinions, and it caused caches to archived with TB's in place...we need to remember that on the other end of our log is a real person who does have feelings...

well, that is unless it's a yeti...we make fun of them all the time Wink

Just my thoughts

Celticwulf
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CamoCacher
Geocacher


Joined: 05 Dec 2005

Posts: 1391

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well hit the cache that began this discussion and while there was one house close all where pretty far up and seemed to be an okay hide. I enjoyed this hide and find.

I definatly agree different hides for different types.
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