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Moe the Sleaze
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1145

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:14 am    Post subject: Registration Form Reply with quote

Would it be possible to change the registration form to perhaps make it a little clearer?

What I'm suggesting is to remove the "Are you 18 years of age or older?" and "Do you agree to abide by the MnGCA Bylaws?" check boxes and instead put a statement up by the "MNGCA Member" "Registration Type" radio button to the effect that by selecting that membership type, you are certifying that you are at least 18 and agree to the bylaws.

Perhaps that might eliminate some of the confusion.
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sui generis
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think that is a good idea. The only thing I would add is that a notice of the change be posted so that those who do not agree with the terms can drop their membership without having anything slipped into the terms of their membership without their knowledge.
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Moe the Sleaze
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1145

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sui generis wrote:
The only thing I would add is that a notice of the change be posted so that those who do not agree with the terms can drop their membership without having anything slipped into the terms of their membership without their knowledge.


Good point.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Registration Form Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
What I'm suggesting is to remove the "Are you 18 years of age or older?" and "Do you agree to abide by the MnGCA Bylaws?" check boxes and instead put a statement up by the "MNGCA Member" "Registration Type" radio button to the effect that by selecting that membership type, you are certifying that you are at least 18 and agree to the bylaws.

1. You don't have to be 18 to be a member, just one that can vote in the elections. So that doesn't work.

2. We would have to revert *everyone* to Cache Games Only and then have them all reregister if we were to change that. Everyone who is already listed as an MnGCA member will not have seen the message that they agree to the Bylaws when they register and thus would be lumped in with that group which isn't fair to anyone so that doesn't work either.

edit after Moe's post for clarity
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Last edited by Marsha and Silent Bob on Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Moe the Sleaze
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the difference between a "non-voting" member and a "games only" member?
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
What's the difference between a "non-voting" member and a "games only" member?

Someone who agrees to the Bylaws but isn't 18 is a non-voting MnGCA Member. Someone who doesn't want to agree to the Bylaws is a Cache Games Only user.

Depending on the situation (i.e. a non-election vote) an MnGCA Member that isn't 18 could still vote.
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Moe the Sleaze
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, then have three radio buttons:

* Full voting member (you certify that you are at least 18 and accept the bylaws)

* Non-voting member (you certify that you accept the bylaws)

* Games only member

Seems to me that there would be no need to revert everyone back to games only.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me that only pre-existing members have a problem with the way it is setup. The numbers of new members, since the code changes were put into place, that are members and agree to the Bylaws are quite high.

Please explain to me why you feel these changes are necessary when it's apparent to me that the "ease of use" argument isn't valid.

In your scenario, and I realize that you don't see it as a problem, we are FORCING pre-existing members to say they have agreed to the Bylaws without even knowing to read them. That's just not right.
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Moe the Sleaze
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
Please explain to me why you feel these changes are necessary when it's apparent to me that the "ease of use" argument isn't valid.


You may think it isn't valid but it is obvious from several other threads that not everyone agrees.

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
In your scenario, and I realize that you don't see it as a problem, we are FORCING pre-existing members to say they have agreed to the Bylaws without even knowing to read them. That's just not right.


Don't all current members fall into one of the three groups listed above? If they don't agree with the bylaws, are they not a "games only" member? If that's not the case, then I'm really confused and this whole matter is even more complicated than I thought and is even in more need of simplification.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
You may think it isn't valid but it is obvious from several other threads that not everyone agrees.

If you're already listed as an MnGCA Member it involves two clicks: Checkbox and Save. If you aren't already a Member it involves three: MnGCA Member radiobutton, checkbox, and save. Changing it two two clicks eliminates one click. The perceived advantages don't outweigh the necessary code changes especially when the stats show that a majority of users don't seem to have a problem with it.

Quote:
Don't all current members fall into one of the three groups listed above? If they don't agree with the bylaws, are they not a "games only" member?

Yes. The Board is working on something similar that will fit into the pre-existing framework. Everyone will be notified to changeover and click the checkbox (if they haven't already). If you don't, you'll be moved to Cache Games Only.
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Moe the Sleaze
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
Moe the Sleaze wrote:
You may think it isn't valid but it is obvious from several other threads that not everyone agrees.

If you're already listed as an MnGCA Member it involves two clicks: Checkbox and Save. If you aren't already a Member it involves three: MnGCA Member radiobutton, checkbox, and save. Changing it two two clicks eliminates one click. The perceived advantages don't outweigh the necessary code changes especially when the stats show that a majority of users don't seem to have a problem with it.


I imagine part of the problem is that the membership selection buttons are up near the bottom of the page and the check boxes are way down at the bottom which maybe results in some kind of mental disconnect. Unless the code changes are quite complicated, in my opinion it is worth trying.

You may see this as a minor problem but it seems to have created a great deal of angst among some of the members.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
I imagine part of the problem is that the membership selection buttons are up near the bottom of the page and the check boxes are way down at the bottom which maybe results in some kind of mental disconnect. Unless the code changes are quite complicated, in my opinion it is worth trying.

Moving them to be close together isn't a problem. I can do that sometime in the near future.

Quote:
You may see this as a minor problem but it seems to have created a great deal of angst among some of the members.

Yes, it has, but I honestly believe that (at most) three clicks is much easier than the manual alternative which is physically attending meetings and giving the association your legally required information there.
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Arcticabn
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Joined: 30 Nov 2003

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe,

For what is worth. I don't think the issue with many of the people is the location or number of radial buttons. It was the fact that they had to agree with the bylaws to be a member. If they didn't like the wording they didn't want to agree. Secondly, it was a matter that many just didn't read the forum posts over a two month period and elect to follow the instructions. There may be some minor rewording we can discuss but in the end individuals must accept the bylaws in order to be a member of the association. If they don't want to accept then they don't get to participate in the decision making.

Yes this has cause a great deal of issue revolving around the coin vote. The vote was established in accordance with the bylaws. Because of the whole issue you may have notice that the Coin Committee (which by the way I abstained from the vote) elected to open up the vote. However, if we do a new design in the future and have another vote, it will be restricted to MnGCA members only.

In my opinion they get the one freebie. Membership has to have some privileges.
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King Boreas
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to try to explain what happened to me because I obviously don't put words together right. All I can say is thanks to Moe because he's asking good questions, and has an understanding of what some issues are.

One other comment that I haven't followed up on, is location of important notices/ announcements. Is there ONE place to look for all changes/modifications/deadlines, etc. ??
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RubberToes
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Joined: 13 Feb 2005

Posts: 222

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

King Boreas wrote:
Is there ONE place to look for all changes/modifications/deadlines, etc. ??


I have to agree with this. Some thought ought to be given to how the association communicates with its members. While the forum is a nice way to handle casual communications, I don't believe it's an effective way of reaching the full membership with important information. It's too easy to miss something on the forum -- even if you try to read it all.

Additionally, in the forum, an important message can become diluted by all the chatter that goes on around it. It ought not be too difficult to have important announcements posted on a non-forum web page to which members can easily refer.

And even though I read the fourms regularly, I personally would love to receive e-mails from the MnGCA letting me know of important developments -- elections, volunteer opportunities, geocoin votes, bylaw changes, etc.

I know sending out such e-mails would be counter to current policy, but it has become clear that despite it's best intentions, the MnGCA was not successful in communicating recent changes to it's members. Perhaps other avenues should be considered.


Last edited by RubberToes on Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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