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MN Approver(s)
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5700

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:17 pm    Post subject: MN Approver(s) Reply with quote

Part of my discussion with Taconite has revolved around the amount of time it takes to get a cache approved once it's submitted and also the amount of time it takes to carry on an email conversation with an approver if you need to about a questionable cache.

Now, I understand that approvers are volunteers. I'm not here to debate that. I'm also not here to debate the particular cache(s) that Taconite is referring to.

Arrow In other words, I appreciate mtn-man and the other approvers for the work that they have put into the sport, and am not attacking them in any such way.

That all being said:

Taconite wrote:

A suggestion: Possibly the members of MNGC could discuss with gc.com adding
more volunteers as approvers.


I'm sure that this has come up before (and I'm sure SB will be able to quickly tell us where in the forums).

Thinking that this may not be an isolated incident, is this something to consider? Are the approvers under-staffed, and if so, is it affecting MN geocaching now (besides this time)? Would we be better off to ask gc.com for a MN only approver, or something of the sorts?

Also, a side question, does MNGCA have any "official" (or unofficial I guess too) communication with gc.com or navicache?
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Kitch
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are the approvers under-staffed, and if so, is it affecting MN geocaching now (besides this time)? Would we be better off to ask gc.com for a MN only approver, or something of the sorts?


I honestly don't know WHO in the state of Minnesota would want to be an approver!

I couldn't imagine how you could handle the pressures of this job. All I can say is Mtn-Man must be a very humble person and as far as I'm concerned he is one of us.

I don't think its too much to ask for a cache to be approved even a week later.....its for our own safety and enjoyment that he needs to check restrictions for parks, railroads, location to other caches, etc....


as for official contact with GC....NOPE...

unofficial? Mtn-man stops by here....so yep.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5700

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had once heard somewhere that if you want to be an approver then they don't want you. Very Happy

That being said, the job, in a limited form (such as MN only) would be acceptable to me.

Many of you may have noticed (most probably have not) that in the past week or so I've gone around and tried to check on a lot of caches in the state that have been listed as disabled for quite some time. I posted notes on most asking about their status, and posted should be archived on a few. So far I have received a few responses to my notes with people telling me that they intend to replace the container, etc, etc. That's great! I would (and do) encourage everyone to post that information on the cache page or in the logs though so that everyone knows it. Hopefully that will become a little more common since I think you can post it now when you disable/reenable a cache.

My goal isn't to eliminate a whole bunch of caches - it's to eliminate a whole bunch of listings for caches that will never be replaced. If the cache owner has intentions of replacing it soon then great!

I'll probably follow up in a few weeks with some should be archived notes for those that still aren't listed as active on gc.com and haven't responded...

In fact, this project is where I came upon all of Taconite's caches to begin with (I was using a PQ of disabled caches in my searches).
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Kitch
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ClayJar's scheduled chat is every Monday at 8:30 CST. For IRC users you can point your client to irc.slashnet.org port 6667, channel #Geocache


...SB..can you post the link for this.....

If you want UNOFFICIAL contact.....this is the best place to look or on the GC.com threads....
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geocaching.com isn't interested in anyone we suggested. Everyone here either has said something in the past that was negative towards them or just doesn't fit what they expect an approver to be.

The single person that might have been acceptable asked not to be an approver due to the time requirements and harassment they are faced with.

Personally? Even if I was allowed to be an approver (I haven't asked but we can assume I won't be suitable for my less than positive comments about them) I really don't know if I could deal with the drama.
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northtrekker
Geocacher


Joined: 23 Jul 2004

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: sometimes Reply with quote

.. if our play becomes our work, that is a drag!
geocaching is a great fun freetime outlet.

remind me to never seek to be a geocache approver!

Rolling Eyes

~ntrek
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Kitch
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

365 days a year.........

Its hard for others in this position to "step-in" and help...the person needs to know OUR state, city, county rules and laws.

I don't think its too much to ask for a few days......I'm 100% sure a local approver is not going to FIX issues with approval time.
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s4xton
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 23 Mar 2003

Posts: 1070

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of "official" contact with Groundspeak, There are a couple people over there that we talk with. They are not an organized bunch. There's a woman that has the "assoications" responsibilities of dealing with the various geocaching groups around the world, but I've only exchanged an e-mail once concerning something on the board. On the other hand, I've personally delt moreso with Nate Irish (the MnGCA board has his direct line). He's Jeremy Irish's brother. I can't say he's always been helpful. Things we have strongly suggested they deal with, they've come back and told us to deal with it.

I'm not a big fan of them, but they've rightfully have the monopoly right now, and as it was mentioned in another thread, there isn't currently a true viable alternative. I'm speaking personally here, and not on behalf of the MnGCA Board.

Silent Bob has unofficially been a liaison concerning talks with Groundspeak about a MN approver. There has not been an official MnGCA conversation with them about an MN approver, at least for this current Board. Silent Bob mentioned exactly what has been relayed in the past: They do not like anyone that has been critical of Groundspeak (which is absolutely retarded on their part).

I am not sure where the conversation is now, and I am not sure how serious Groundspeak ever was (or will be) about having a MN approver.

-Aaron
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rickrich
Geocacher


Joined: 06 Jul 2003

Posts: 673

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mtn-man is part time volunteer. 3 nights a week. We need a full time volunteer.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5700

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kitch wrote:
I couldn't imagine how you could handle the pressures of this job. All I can say is Mtn-Man must be a very humble person and as far as I'm concerned he is one of us.


And again, I'm not knocking the quality of mtn-man's work. I have agreed with him (sometimes after a discussion) that he is following the fules that were laid out before him. My question is along the lines of is he over-worked? Are MN cachers suffering because of the delays (a week sometimes).

I personally don't care as much if I have to wait a week to get a cache approved. When I started caching and hiding caches it was a bigger deal. I've come to realize that there hasn't ever been a cache at xyz, so another week won't kill me.

Others don't think that way, newbies especially, but there are others besides newbies.

Kitch wrote:
I don't think its too much to ask for a cache to be approved even a week later.....its for our own safety and enjoyment that he needs to check restrictions for parks, railroads, location to other caches, etc....

I can understand that reasoning if it took him a week to do the research, yes. In this case, I am guessing that it takes much less time to do the research, he just is busy with other things and doesn't get around to it for a week.

One thing I've always appreciated about mtn-man in my limited dealings with the man is that he seems to be fair and not hold a grudge. You can have a heated discussion regarding one cache and he'll approve another in the middle of it.

To me the ideal would be to have mtn-man approve MN caches only. I like him as an approver, just feel that he is overworked.
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rickrich
Geocacher


Joined: 06 Jul 2003

Posts: 673

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like several MN approvers and get rid of 12AM approvals. 12AM approvals let me be FTF more often. This is not fair to others.
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spinowner
Geocacher


Joined: 25 Nov 2004

Posts: 586

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been comments made that imply approvers should be immune from criticism because they are volunteers. I disagree. Criticism of the quantity of work done is inappropriate (for lack of a better word), but I think it's valid and important to monitor the quality of work done and to point out and to question actions that adversely affect our caches. I'm sure all approvers have received unfair abuse, and it's easy to understand why one would not want to become an approver. But approvers still have to keep in mind that the reason for constructive criticism is that we cachers have the same goal that they should have--to make caching as good an experience as possible. It is truly a shame if the people at Groundspeak are so paranoid that they refuse to deal with someone solely because of past criticism of their organization.
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mtn-man
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Aug 2003

Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spinowner wrote:
It is truly a shame if the people at Groundspeak are so paranoid that they refuse to deal with someone solely because of past criticism of their organization.

That's not it at all.

The only question is whether a potential candidate will uphold the guidelines.
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mtn-man... (formerly) Keeping an eye on the King!
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rickrich
Geocacher


Joined: 06 Jul 2003

Posts: 673

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See today they approved some around 10:30AM. I was gone by then. Now don't save them up in batches and we have a winner.
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mtn-man
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Aug 2003

Posts: 70

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rickrich wrote:
See today they approved some around 10:30AM. I was gone by then. Now don't save them up in batches and we have a winner.

Ah, don't worry.
Predictability will be the last thing you will see in the future.
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