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"Copied" CD music
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2445

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:08 am    Post subject: "Copied" CD music Reply with quote

Anyone know the laws on sharing music? Can I leave "evaluation" copies (songs I burned on CD) in a cache?

As a variation of my Hot Wax series, I'd like to share some of the 1960's Psychedelia tunes with you young'uns. I'm having major flashbacks playing this stuff, feelin' groovy, may even grow out my hair.
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miles58
Geocacher


Joined: 07 Mar 2005

Posts: 196

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:28 am    Post subject: re: CD copies Reply with quote

Fair use law allows you to copy music and share it as long as there is no money involved and within limits. So long as you don't make hundreds of them you are OK.

Copyrighted software is a little different because it's a licensed item.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You cannot burn copies of music and leave them in caches unless they are 30s clips (which is fair use) or they are able to be freely distibuted (like Grateful Dead, Phish, etc).
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sui generis
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 17 Apr 2004

Posts: 608

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with Miles58's statement. (I don't know that it is incorrect per se, but I think there are other factors to be considered in making the determination than just profit motive) Please visit the following site for an article that discusses the factors considered in determining "fair use", as well as some guidelines for fair use that might be helpful.http://www.umuc.edu/library/copy.html
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2445

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://homepages.tesco.net/~beautiful.day/images/instituciones.jpg

Sui Generis - Pequenas Anecdotas Sobre Las Instituciones
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Kitch
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
You cannot burn copies of music and leave them in caches unless they are 30s clips (which is fair use) or they are able to be freely distibuted (like Grateful Dead, Phish, etc).


woohooo!!!!

I'm all for that...when I silent bob going to start Rippin' his collection!!!
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Kitch
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talk about a new form of tape trading.
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miles58
Geocacher


Joined: 07 Mar 2005

Posts: 196

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:11 pm    Post subject: re: fair use Reply with quote

For dropping a couple copies of albums into a cache to violate copyright it would need to fall into some plausible description of a form of distribution.

Absent a monetary exchange and absent the "distribution" of some substantial number there is no damage and in all probability there is some degree of benefit to the copyright holder, thus the decisions rendered so far regarding VCR's and person to person transfers of individual works.

Educational institutions in particular are a little more sensitive to this because the distribution is more often from a single person to many, perhaps thousands.
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jaywc7
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Sep 2004

Posts: 360

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know anything about the laws, but I would simply suggest checking them before making any such moves. I know a few people who were sued due to music fraud. If you're doing it at home and indescretely, it's no big deal. If it is illegal, and you place it in a cache, you're just asking for trouble... Rolling Eyes
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sui generis
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 17 Apr 2004

Posts: 608

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not going to directly answer your question or give direct advice, as that could get me in trouble. Again, however, I disagree with the assessment made by miles58. Whether or not this falls under "Fair Use" will have to be your own call, because you will have to face any consequences that may arise, as remote a possiblility as that may be. Title 17 of the United states Code deals with copyright. Section 106 deals with the rights granted to an owner of a copyright. Section 107 covers fair use. After reading these, as well as the refrences to case law, I do not think this is something I would do myself. While any damages suffered by the owners of the copyright would probably be minimal, if they chose to enforce them, they could hammer you with attorney fees and costs of court as well. Also, if within a certain time period (I now forget how long) the amount of copies exceeds a retail value of $1000.00, you could face criminal charges as well.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sui generis wrote:
IWhether or not this falls under "Fair Use" will have to be your own call, because you will have to face any consequences that may arise, as remote a possiblility as that may be.

While IANAL I am very familiar with fair use and making multiple full-length copies and distributing them while retaining the original does not fall under fair use. Now, will you get caught and prosecuted? Probably not. That doesn't mean that it is legal.

I suggest that you either stick to music that is freely distributed or you make 30s (or less) clips to put on the CDs.

You never know who's lurking out there just waiting for their chance to become a thorn in your side.
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fsu*noles
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Joined: 18 Jan 2004

Posts: 342

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: re: CD copies Reply with quote

miles58 wrote:
Fair use law allows you to copy music and share it as long as there is no money involved and within limits.

Alright, I'm not a lawyer, but something about that seems a bit off. I always thought that "fair use" meant you could copy a music CD for *yourself*, but to copy it and hand it out to 5 people (or put it in a cache) seems like it would be counter to the intent of the law, does it not? I agree with SB, if you want to give the young'uns a taste of the 60's then a compilation of 30-second clips seems like a good, and safe, way to accomplish the goal without putting anyone at risk - no matter how small that risk may be. Just my .02,

-Ken
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miles58
Geocacher


Joined: 07 Mar 2005

Posts: 196

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject: copies and use Reply with quote

Fair use allows you to make one (or more) copies for your own use.

You may take either the original or a copy and provide it to a third party to use, provided you are not "distributing" the material or doing so for profit.

If you sell even one copy, it's a violation. If you engage in "distribution", say
playing/showing the material for mass consumption you can get into questionable ground.

To cross the line would require a form of solicitation, and particularly with some profit involved.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that were the case then the RIAA would have no grounds to bring people to civil court that were just making copies and distributing them to other people.

I'm sorry, fair use does not include making copies for distribution regardless if you are attempting to gain profit from them or not.
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jaywc7
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Sep 2004

Posts: 360

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm sorry, fair use does not include making copies for distribution regardless if you are attempting to gain profit from them or not.


I agree with this totally. I don't think it's legal to copy unless you are doing so for your sole purpose, let's say to "Back Up" and such. I think that each time you distribute in any way, regardless of money, you are in violation. I also think that one person with mulitple copies in posession is illegal as well.
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