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Simple directions

 
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Is a one for one policy acceptable for TB hotels?
Yes, it's a reasonable policy
31%
 31%  [ 5 ]
No, it's not a reasonable policy
68%
 68%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 16

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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5708

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: Simple directions Reply with quote

Maybe it's just me... Maybe I'm being unreasonable...

[vent]

I place a cache, state in the text (in a font+2 size):

cache page wrote:
PLEASE DO NOT TAKE A TB UNLESS YOU PUT ANOTHER TB INTO THE CACHE. ONE FOR ONE. PLEASE, NO EXCEPTIONS.


Yet people (and far from just one) can't follow the directions.

My goal with the cache isn't to hoard TBs. It's to have a few TBs in the cache so that it remains what it is supposed to be (a TB hotel). I've been to a couple of hotels now that are just empty boxes with no TBs to trade because one or two cachers have come along and cleaned them out. Mine has gotten a little crowded at times, and I have tried to move a couple of bugs out when it does. I also granted permission to one person to do the same. All I ask is that you exchange them one for one (or at least email me before you ignore what I ask).

[/vent]

Am I being unreasonable - should I adjust the directions or are they good as they are?

Comments?
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember this is IMHO:

Well it is your cache and you are free to post whatever you want to the cache page but there is no official rules on TB trading. TBs are not typically trade items (which means there is no need to leave something when you take one).

TBs are meant to move and if you can help it move to its destination by all means do it. I certainly wouldn't want my TB to congregate in a hotel because someone wasn't permitted to move it by "rules".

YMMV.

edit: I was apparently really DUMB and could not make sense to a dog.
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Last edited by Marsha and Silent Bob on Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Arcticabn
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 30 Nov 2003

Posts: 1846

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with SB. TBs are not the propoerty of the cache owner and are not his/hers to control. They belong to the originator of the TB and attempts should be made to help them on their goal. Now I don't necessarily agree with someone hitting a hotel and taking every TB in the hotel out. But then again, it's only my opinion there. Some people collect TB stats others could care less about taking a TB, all they care about is signing a log.

The idea of a TB hotel in my mind is it's just another cache really. The only TB hotels that make any sense to me are those that are in very close proximity to major routes of travel or airports (only when you don't need a car to get to it). Even then most caches who are traveling don't just want to drop a TB off at the airport.

I've seen TB hotels that are out in the middle of nowhere and take a half hour to walk to.

IMO it's just another cache. And the cache owner can put rules on the cache but it doesn't mean that cachers will follow them.
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2442

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if this will make sense, but I'll try.

I have tried "creating" T B hotels, with varying degrees of success. I have had "regular" caches become T B hotels, because of the location.

As an owner of several travel bugs, I like to see them move.
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s4xton
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 23 Mar 2003

Posts: 1070

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Simple directions Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
Yet people (and far from just one) can't follow the directions.


I followed the directions when I was there recently... even though I possibly could have helped some of the bugs when I visited. If I'm dealing with you, I did the right thing. If I'm dealing with a bug owner who I could have knowledgeably helped out, maybe I did the wrong thing. I said something along those lines in my log I think, but it doesn't bother me at all. It's what you wanted to do and I respect that, and I wouldn't want to ruin it for everyone that's enjoying it.

I think your rule makes total sense for bugs that don't have a goal (I have opinions about bugs with no goals too Wink), but I don't know if it makes sense to restrict a bug's movement when the purpose (I assume) of a Bug Hotel is to help TBs complete their goals.

My overall opinion on bug hotels: Cachers don't create them, they create themselves. That cache you have there is probably the best location in the 50 mile radius for travel bugs, regardless if it's called a TB Hotel or not. Even if you didn't call it a Bug Hotel, it would probably still get a ton of bugs.

From personal experience, I adopted "Reservoir Woods Bug Hotel" from a friend when she moved to Arizona. The first thing I did was to remove "Bug Hotel" from the cache name. It still receives a lot of bugs, and it's not even a great location for a TB hotel either.

In the end, I'm cool with whatever people want to do, just as long as it doesn't hurt anyone or do anything negative to the sport. You're nowhere near either of those two things, so it's all good in my book.

-Aaron


Last edited by s4xton on Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Moe the Sleaze
Geocacher


Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1146

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing to keep in mind is that not everyone bothers to read the cache description. They just load up their GPSr with a bunch of waypoints from a PQ and head out.
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2442

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That cache you have there is probably the best location in the 50 mile radius for travel bugs,


... and I'm still jealous that I don't have one there. When I was doing my Rest Area runs, I quickly looked (in the wrong areas) and decided there was no place for a cache.

Heh

I've been wrong once or twice.
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sui generis
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 17 Apr 2004

Posts: 608

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one for one switch requirement on TB's does not seem to be the local custom here. As such, I am not suprised the instruction is not followed. While I do not have a problem with people taking more than one travel bug, or not exchanging travel bugs one for another, I do have a problem with people who do not log taking the bugs in a timely fashion so that other seekers who bother to check the page before they head out are led to believe they are there. If you are the kind who likes to leave a bug hotel empty, I do not think it unreasonable to expect that you would go straight to a computer and log the fact to save other bug seekers a disappointing trip. (use of pronoun "you" is not referencing anybody in particular.)
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spinowner
Geocacher


Joined: 25 Nov 2004

Posts: 587

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMveryHO: I don't see any reason for designating a cache as a TB hotel. If you'd like to place a cache that will have a lot of TB traffic just select a location that's easy to get to (so that out-of-towners will be more likely to find it) and use a container that's large enough to hold them. If you do this, they will come. As for the one-for-one rule, the goal of the TB should take precedence over the goal of the cache. For example, if a cacher is planning a trip and wants to clean the TB's out of a cache so that they can continue to travel (which is their reason for existence in the first place) then that's the way to go.
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LanceVE
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 132

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two main reasons I disagree with the 1 for 1 rule.

1. It limits enjoyment of the cache because, unless people want to TNLNSL, you're limiting the cache to only be hunted by people who already have TB's (kind of like a twisted variant of MOC's),
2. The 'Hotel' part of the 'TB Hotel' is more like a Roach Motel. Travel Bugs go in, and they don't come back out (anytime soon) I have heard this as a complaint more than once from other out-of-state cachers I know, either as bug-owners, or as being able to help a bug, but not having one with which to free the captive when they could help out on the mission.

So call me whatever names you want, but if I see a bug I can help on it's way, I will. Of course, I generally don't go to bug hotels (refer back to reason #1) so this isn't usually a problem.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5708

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for your opinions. I have edited my cache page slightly to reflect some of what I've heard here. Great discussion! I hadn't considered a couple of the opinions that were brought up.

GCJ2BF, Thompson Hill TB Hotel wrote:
I would appreciate it if you swap bugs one for one but please take a bug if you feel that you can help it along to it's destination.


I haven't changed my opinion on the concept of a TB Hotel. Mainly because the idea behind it was to unload TBs instead of holding on to them. To me a TB is better off in a cache than in someone's hands.

The 1-for-1 policy was in place to try and keep the cache a TB Hotel. It wasn't to restrict bugs from coming and going. I realize that the policy DOES restrict them however, so I've tried to alter it some to let the bugs that can be helped along to a goal move along.

I'm open for more opinions - I'm sure this isn't the final chapter.

- Pear Head
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Dances With Beehives
Geocacher


Joined: 12 Sep 2003

Posts: 671

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think 1 for 1 is a reasonable suggestion, or request.....as far as rules go though....well they are made to be broken. Embarassed
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Wayfarin Stranger
Geocacher


Joined: 01 Apr 2003

Posts: 122

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm concerned, I specifically state on the pages of the 3 TB"s I own to NOT deposit them in a bug motel, bugs only cache or whatever. They are out there to make their way to a different cache site, not some drop near a well traveled route where they may be stolen or destroyed and that has happened. Granted, a TB might languish in a cache for weeks, but as long as it will move sooner or later does not matter to me.
As a side note, if I see someone just log a "note" that they saw my bug in some cache, I will delete that note.
Log my bug?....then move it along.....
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
Thanks all for your opinions. I have edited my cache page slightly to reflect some of what I've heard here. Great discussion! I hadn't considered a couple of the opinions that were brought up.

I'm open for more opinions - I'm sure this isn't the final chapter.

Glad to see that we actually had some constructive ideas that worked for you. Actually, I'm amazed Wink

Thanks again Pear Head.
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s4xton
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 23 Mar 2003

Posts: 1070

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL

Sorry... but I found this really funny.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=4251c085-f4a7-4a7a-aa0d-a1563d3b99b5

I just noticed this today - I should have checked that page when the thread started:

Quote:
found it...deep snow...took laker st. croix...took travel bugs for vip opening of St. Paul TB Hotel, left travel bug Orosco the Poison Dart Frog...
TFTC


Taking TBs for the specific purpose of moving them to another TB Hotel - that doesn't even exist yet?

It's so wrong it makes me laugh.

I understand why Pear Head might be upset!

-Aaron
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