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railroad tracks
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hardware
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Joined: 13 Jan 2003

Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

King Boreas wrote:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:vbOINzpN8s8J:www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/buses/UpdatedWeb/topic_3/handout2.html+exempt+rr+crossing&hl=en

An EXEMPT sign means that the crossing has been abandoned or its use discontinued. Follow your local procedures about stopping.

Take a picture of your gpsr at the sign and upload it to your cache page.


thanks for the information and the suggestion. if need be, i will be doing that on saturday.
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team-deadhead
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Joined: 18 Dec 2003

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a cache next to RR tracks but I wrote in my notes that you couldn't get near the tracks. I had no problem with the cache placment.
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mtn-man
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Joined: 13 Aug 2003

Posts: 70

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The information is on the Internet. All you have to do is look for it.

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ofrw/railroads.html
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ofrw/maps/statemap.pdf

This line shows on all maps linked from your cache page. This map pinpoints the rail line near the cache. As you can see, the line is a Class I BNSF rail line. It also appears to be used by the Canadian Pacific Railway and the Canadian National. From the information on the site I think the Canadian National now owns that line.

I was going to place my "End of the Line" cache down what I thought was an inactive rail line. The tracks were rusted and "appeared" to be unused. About a week before I planned to put the cache in (it was a multi and took time to get all the parts right), suddenly I saw a line cars parked on the tracks. I just removed a couple of the final sections of the multi and ended the cache where the tracks ended (literally at the end of the rail line). There are still trees down on the tracks 150+ feet away from my cache, which is now right on the end of the track. I placed the cache there because it was the end of our Rails to Trails Hiking/Biking trail that goes from Atlanta to the AL state line. Every few months I see cars on the tracks. I go by there on my way to work every weekday.

It seems to me that the simple solution would be to move the cache about 50 - 75 feet. Problem solved. No need for another 5 page topic.

The funny thing is that I get grief for trying to keep you from potentially going to jail and/or being fined. Most people just thank me and move on.


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hardware
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Posts: 157

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtn-man wrote:
The funny thing is that I get grief for trying to keep you from potentially going to jail and/or being fined. Most people just thank me and move on.


leave it to you to fall on a sword that isn't there. this thread isn't about you, but i'm not surprised you want to make it about you, just as you did in the aforementioned thread.

i asked others for information that could be useful in helping me determine how caches around active or inactive tracks have been handled. i'm sure somehow you find fault with that.

if you're going to bring yourself into this discussion, a discussion that purposefully left you out, why don't you explain to everyone how your response to my request for the information that served as the basis of your decision was met with a very misguided statement that you were "still a bit stunned and amazed that you have asked me to do the work for your cache."

i have made it clear why this location is highly desirable, if the location meets the guidelines. why you have a problem with me challenging the basis for your decision is beyond me. why you have time to respond illogically rather than address my question is beyond me. why you are determined to make a martyr of yourself, instead of turning this matter over to another administrator as i have requested, is beyond me.

i think it is obvious this thread is not about you. rather than continue to make it so, i request that you provide us all with information about how we can show railroad tracks are inactive, if indeed they are. is a picture of the nearby exempt crossing, with a gps display of coordinates for the location, sufficient?

what if a city official verifies that the tracks are inactive. is that adequate?

any other suggestions?
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pogopod
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Joined: 26 Jan 2003

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yikes, those old wounds never seem to heal.

As a rule of thumb, if tracks are still in place, someone considers the tracks as viable. In most situations when a railroad abandons a route it pulls up the track for a variety of reasons. Salvage, liability, etc. If tracks are still there, it almost always means that either the railroad thinks there may someday be a use for the line, or the government will not give the railroad permission to abandon the line, or some governing body has bought the line with the intent of using it in the future. In any case, the old adage of "expect a train on any track at any time" applies. I would see if there is somewhere else to place the cache.
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hardware
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that may be sage advice. i certainly have never assumed the tracks are absolutely abandoned, but all signs point to yes. i've seen so many tracks that have been abandoned, yet not removed, that i wouldn't immediately assume an abandoned railroad = removed tracks.

as i think i pointed out previously, this park is desirable, but its options are limited.
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sui generis
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 17 Apr 2004

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes you wonder how This one got approved.

It is off of a bike path, I would say less than 50 feet from the tracks, with no barrier whatsoever. These tracks did not appear to be innactive either (but I could be wrong).
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mtn-man
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how that got approved either. It was not one that I reviewed. The cache owner is now inactive, so I will try to contact them. If there is no response it might be a good idea for it to be removed.
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mtn-man
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hardware wrote:
this thread isn't about you, but i'm not surprised you want to make it about you, just as you did in the aforementioned thread.

i asked others for information that could be useful in helping me determine how caches around active or inactive tracks have been handled. i'm sure somehow you find fault with that.

I'm sorry, but can you show me exactly where I made this topic about me?

I gave links to the information regarding active rail lines. You requested that, right? I also gave an example of how a rail line might be assumed to be inactive but in fact might very well be active.

I have no problem with you posting a topic. I would also think that since this is a public board that I should be able to respond to topics on it, or am I censored from doing that for some reason in your mind? Rolling Eyes
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hardware
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will no longer respond to public postings made my mtn-man, as he continues to respond illogically.
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s4xton
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, the irony. Wink

Good thing I'm not a forum moderator.

Laughing

-Aaron
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sui generis
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Joined: 17 Apr 2004

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It was not one that I reviewed.


My guess would be that it is not. If I am not mistaken, you usually label your approvals. This one does not have your label on it.
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King Boreas
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My guess would be that it is not. If I am not mistaken, you usually label your approvals. This one does not have your label on it.


That's only visible by the cache owner.
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mtn-man
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I never really label caches I list on the site. The note at the bottom of your owned caches that shows the name of the reviewer is an automatic function that has been there pretty much since the beginning (though Jeremy made it available to cache owners a little while back). Some reviewers do post notes on each cache they approve but I don't. I already have well over 2500 notes on archived caches and reviewer notes on other caches. I have deleted around 500 or 600 additional logs over time on old caches I archived around the world back when I reviewed caches globally. It is nice that the workload has been cut down and spread out so much in the past couple of years.

Hardware, I am not surprised that you will not answer my questions here. It is because the answer to the questions only hurt your crusade.

hardware wrote:
why don't you explain to everyone how your response to my request for the information that served as the basis of your decision was met with a very misguided statement that you were "still a bit stunned and amazed that you have asked me to do the work for your cache."
<snip>
i request that you provide us all with information about how we can show railroad tracks are inactive, if indeed they are.

Once again, you ask me to do your work. OK. Everybody else just moves their cache, but if you want a roadmap to do this the hard way I will give it to you.

I have provided links that show that these tracks are active. Calling the city is probably not the way to go. You really need to get in touch with railroads themselves. Since they actually would be responsible for these lines they would be the ones to ask, not the city (which the city would probably have told you when you got permission to place the cache in the park to begin with... you got permission, right?).

http://www.bnsf.com/
http://www8.cpr.ca/cms/English/default.htm
http://www.cn.ca/en_index.shtml?ww=1024

You would probably have to make several calls to get directed to the correct departments for each company. You can search your local directories to see if you can find local offices for each of the companies as well. Once you get in touch with them they would need to send you an email confirming the status of these tracks. They may even give you permission to have the cache there. You can then forward the emails from the three companies to me with the email addresses of the contacts for the companies within the emails.

Or you could move the cache 75 more feet from the tracks.
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hardware
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

does anyone find it puzzling how asking what suffices as satisfactory proof turns into a request for doing the work for me?

for the information of those reading this forum, i have never asked that the tracks be verified as active. i asked what the information was that served as the basis of the determination.

as i stated before, i will not respond to comments by mtn-man. but i did want to make a clarification for those of you who are now reading a topic that relates to my specific cache, which was not the intent of this topic when i started it.
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