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Caching The Luce Line
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HOOAH!!
Geocacher


Joined: 14 Sep 2008

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Caching The Luce Line Reply with quote

I Received this Email today and was wondering if anyone had any input on it.


I am sending this message in regard to multiple geo-caches that I have discovered on family property located along the Luce Line trail west of Watertown, MN. Over the past few years I have noticed an influx of people trespassing on my property, and it wasn’t until more recently that I figured out the root cause. It appears that there are many caches located on my property (which is posted NO TRESPASSING). I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, however this stretch of property is hunted quite heavily in the spring and fall, and this is when I encounter the majority of the trespassers, I would hate for an accident to happen. Beside the fact that having people trample around in the woods completely ruins the chances of hunters in the area. Also, if someone were to get hurt in any way on my property I would be held liable for their injuries. This property and the property adjacent to it is currently being logged and I feel it is just a matter of time until someone gets hurt by a falling tree, a large piece of equipment, or anything of that nature.
I have been in contact with the Department of Natural Resources to help me in resolving the trespassing issues. Listed is the response I received:
“The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and the Minnesota Department of Transportation (DOT) both require permission and/or permits for private geo-caches on the lands they manage. Our Parks and Trails and Forestry Divisions should be on State lands. Those in a State Forest may not have a permit but they still need to have permission to be there. There should be none on a DNR State Trail. Placing a geo-cache on a State Trail controlled by the DNR is prohibited.”
The person I have been in contact with advised me that it is illegal to have any caches along the Luce Line much less on private property adjacent to the trail. Keeping this in mind, I kindly ask that you remove any caches you may have placed on private property. Also, it may be in your best interest to remove any you may have within the trail right of way because the DNR is aware of them, and it is illegal to have them there. Any caches not removed within the next (7) days, I will personally remove.
Thank you for your quick action.


User's Profile:
http://coord.info/PR6CXM3


NONE of my caches are more than 20 to 25 feet or so off the trail and most are 10 feet or less, none of them are on the other side of any fences.
I'm going to send an Email to him to find out what caches he's talking about but, I was just wondering what you thought about it as others have received the same Email that I did that have caches in the area along the Luce Line.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4039

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be wise to look up the easement for the trail. It is also not uncommon for land owners to "assume ownership" of land that is not really there's. Sounds like some homework needs to take place.

Oops. [there's] should be [theirs]. BLUSH.


Last edited by bflentje on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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WestSideDaddy
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 560

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the DNR site, they do not require (as I read it) a permit or permission for state forests.

Quote:

2.0 PERMITS USUALLY ARE NOT REQUIRED IN STATE FORESTS EXCEPT:
• Groups who want to conduct a short-term, sponsored event may be required to acquire a Special
Event Permit if the event involves enough people to disrupt normal use of the forest lands or cause
significant environmental effects.
• Generally a cache may be placed in a state forest without receiving a permit from DNR, providing
that no significant damage is caused to commercial or protected species of flora or fauna. All
natural resource regulations must be observed including restrictions on off highway vehicles, rutting
prohibitions, etc.
• A cache should be camouflaged to minimize visual impacts.


http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/recreation/geocaching/sf_geocaching_guidelines.pdf
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Moe the Sleaze
Geocacher


Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1145

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Luce Line and other state trails have nothing to do with the State Forests.

The last I knew, State Trails are administered by the same folks in charge of the State Parks and, technically, the State Park geocaching guidelines should apply. HOWEVER, per discussions between the Parks/Trails people and Andrew McCracken, they have chosen to not enforce the guidelines in regard to State Trails.

Perhaps Andrew could provide more details.
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HOOAH!!
Geocacher


Joined: 14 Sep 2008

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You for the input I appreciate it & will let everyone know what becomes of this situation.
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Red_Devil35
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 26 Apr 2006

Posts: 3096

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOOAH!! wrote:
Thank You for the input I appreciate it & will let everyone know what becomes of this situation.


Please do! I have two along there, and have never had any issues with complaints from locals.
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team_geomonkey
Geocacher


Joined: 07 Dec 2009

Posts: 166

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there was at least one that I questioned may be on personal property: GC36A6F - its at the end of a road, at the end of someones driveway.
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minnstars
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Sep 2008

Posts: 298

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a large number of caches along the Soo Line Trail. I tried to be careful to keep them all within the trail right of way generally no more than 25 feet off the trail.
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminded me of an earlier discussion, which was about Three Rivers, not state trails, but maybe it applies here. "The main reason they are against caches along the trails is the potential for people caching on private property adjacent to a trail." Also "I think part of their concern is that they don't always own the land the trails traverse, but rather only have an easement." So even if the cache is on the easement, it may still be this guy's property. The easement is for people using the trail, not hiding caches.

http://mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56510
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A-body
Geocacher


Joined: 26 Jun 2009

Posts: 145

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

without knowing the caches in question, here is a scenario. If the cache is placed 1/2 mile from where the trail crosses the nearest county road, and there may only be .1 from a road that parallels the trail, some cachers would probably take the shorter route thru private property. I personally would not do that, but it is almost guaranteed that some will.
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dornole
Geocacher


Joined: 03 Apr 2006

Posts: 459

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes a ton of sense to me pfalstad. I always wondered why trails were excluded from some policies since they are quite attractive places to cache. Protecting the park system's ability to ask for easements makes sense as a reason. I don't think we'd have any long trails like the Luce Line without them.
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HOOAH!!
Geocacher


Joined: 14 Sep 2008

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well it's been 48 hours now with no reply to the Email that I sent him asking him wich caches he claims is on his property.
I'd have no problem removing any caches placed on privet property by mistake but I realy don't think that any of mine are.
I'll keep you all posted.
Thanks Again
HOOAH!!
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GeoBex
Geocacher


Joined: 01 Nov 2009

Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have a cache which is a tribute to Hooah! and received the same email. I guess I am looking for a little direction on what I should do. The email reads that if I don't remove my cache this land owner will remove it anyway. It has gone missing once already and maybe this explains why. I don't want my cache to cause any trouble but it is only one of a hundred along this trail. I realize I am probably dealing with a different land owner than most and probably the same one Hooah! is dealing with. The DNR site says you are not supposed to hunt on their property which seems to be this guys complaint. He is complaining about geocachers scaring the animals they are hunting but the trail allows horses and snowmobiles to run these trails too. Please let me know what you think I should do.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5693

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeoBex wrote:
Please let me know what you think I should do.


If it were me, I'd wait until the "landowner" provides a little more information about which caches are the issue. Until then I wouldn't worry, assuming your caches are in the trail right of way.

Pear Head's $0.02.
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2440

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My $0.03

The guy made the effort to create a geocaching account. He made contacts with people whose names he received on a list. He may NOT know how to determine a GC# or name of a cache. I think he's made a reasonable effort (not like a monkey *** in Aitkin County)

If the Reviewer(s) or the Board have not contacted him, I think someone should. He was very cordial to me in our short correspondence.

Arrow It's cold out ... I just burned the soapbox. Rolling Eyes
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