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Blaine regulations
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15Tango
MnGCA Board


Joined: 17 Dec 2002

Posts: 857

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Blaine regulations Reply with quote

minnesotabrad wrote:
emmanogoldfish wrote:
Pear Head wrote:
I just learned of this today:

http://www.ci.blaine.mn.us/index.cfm?id=901573

Code:
Geocaching Guidelines in Blaine Parks

   1. All caches placed in Blaine Parks must be registered, unregistered caches will be removed.
   2. Caches must not be buried and be accessible from a standing position.
   3. Caches must not contain items that are offensive, dangerous, or illegal.
   4. Blaine Park and Recreation retains the right to remove, or have removed, a cache it feels is in an inappropriate location or is causing undue impact on the natural habitat.
   5. Caches must be at least 1/2 mile apart, and 1/10 of a mile from an existing trail.
   6. Caches need to be public, no member only or subscription caches.
   7. Individuals will be limited to (2) caches per park and/or a total of (5) caches throughout the park system.
   8. Caches are not allowed in picnic areas, play areas, and the beach.
   9. Geocaching may only occur during normal park hours 5:00am - 10:00pm.


This policy...well...is about as bad as it gets. I would hope that the board will be able to make some significant progress towards something better for all.


Looks like a great policy. Although what is the meaning of "and 1/10 of a mile from an
existing trail."?



It means you better lock your bike.


And it means they want geotrails at least 528 feet long going from the existing trails to the geocaches.
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dornole
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assumed they wanted the caches to be WITHIN 1/10 mile of a trail, similar to Three Rivers that wants them near trails. I don't think it's clear at all.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Blaine regulations Reply with quote

15Tango wrote:
And it means they want geotrails at least 528 feet long going from the existing trails to the geocaches.


When negotiating with the State Parks years ago, we argued the point (I believe successfully) that there is less of a trail to the cache when the cache is further from the trail.

When a cache is close to the trail everyone tends to take the same route as everyone chooses the same 'jumping off' point. When it's further (say 100'+), people choose different spots to leave the established trail. This is all dependent on the vegetation in the area, naturally. Over time, given enough visitors (the Safari caches for example) and a trail will still be established, but for your average cache I believe it holds true.
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sparkyfry
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Blaine regulations Reply with quote

emmanogoldfish wrote:
Although what is the meaning of "and 1/10 of a mile from an existing trail."?


I was wondering that as well. If you take it at face value, it means two things: 1) The cache must be located exactly 528 feet from an existing trail, no less, no more; and 2) the trail must be "existing," presumably at the time the cache was hid. You got me what constitutes a trail, whether it means it has to be paved, or a goat path, or a geo-trail. Or maybe "trail" is defined somewhere else in Blaine's ordinances...
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pfalstad
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Blaine regulations Reply with quote

sparkyfry wrote:
emmanogoldfish wrote:
Although what is the meaning of "and 1/10 of a mile from an existing trail."?

I was wondering that as well. If you take it at face value, it means two things: 1) The cache must be located exactly 528 feet from an existing trail, no less, no more;

I read it as "at least 1/10 of a mile from an existing trail", though that's probably not what they meant.
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khoda
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Joined: 12 Jul 2011

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Blaine regulations Reply with quote

Geocaching Guidelines in Blaine Parks

1. All caches placed in Blaine Parks must be registered, unregistered caches will be removed.
5. Caches must be at least 1/2 mile apart, and 1/10 of a mile from an existing trail.

Item #1: It applies to Blaine Parks. What about the rest of Blaine public areas? How about the Blaine Open Area? How about bike trails along roads?

Item #5: I would assume that the cache must be within 0.1 mile from an existing trail and not that it must be 0.1 mile from an existing trail. This makes sense if their intent is to minimize the impact on the environment.
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bflentje
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Blaine regulations Reply with quote

khoda wrote:
Geocaching Guidelines in Blaine Parks

1. All caches placed in Blaine Parks must be registered, unregistered caches will be removed.
5. Caches must be at least 1/2 mile apart, and 1/10 of a mile from an existing trail.

Item #1: It applies to Blaine Parks. What about the rest of Blaine public areas? How about the Blaine Open Area? How about bike trails along roads?

Item #5: I would assume that the cache must be within 0.1 mile from an existing trail and not that it must be 0.1 mile from an existing trail. This makes sense if their intent is to minimize the impact on the environment.


The Blaine city parks system would only have jurisdiction and/or authority over Blaine city parks.
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Moe the Sleaze
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Blaine regulations Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
khoda wrote:
Geocaching Guidelines in Blaine Parks

1. All caches placed in Blaine Parks must be registered, unregistered caches will be removed.
5. Caches must be at least 1/2 mile apart, and 1/10 of a mile from an existing trail.

Item #1: It applies to Blaine Parks. What about the rest of Blaine public areas? How about the Blaine Open Area? How about bike trails along roads?

Item #5: I would assume that the cache must be within 0.1 mile from an existing trail and not that it must be 0.1 mile from an existing trail. This makes sense if their intent is to minimize the impact on the environment.


The Blaine city parks system would only have jurisdiction and/or authority over Blaine city parks.


I wouldn't assume that. It is quite possible the city trails and/or open spaces are under the jurisdiction of the park system. For instance, Ramsey County Open Spaces are part of Ramsey County Parks and their geocaching policy applies to them.
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Mn-treker
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Joined: 15 Sep 2011

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have placed a geocache in a Blaine city park under these new rules.
Sasquatch was seen here. I did a typo on my coords wich put it off 400 feet. I re asked the contact person with new coords if this was still ok and he said yes.
This put it about 100 feet from a playground and about 50 feet from a paved trail to that playground. Also on the website for those rules Blaine does list the open space as needing this permission. whoever worded these rules did it very poorly. The from a standing position is most likely no tree climbing, mine is on the ground. and 1/10 mile most likely within 1/10 mile. just like Springbrook.
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bflentje
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Blaine regulations Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
bflentje wrote:
khoda wrote:
Geocaching Guidelines in Blaine Parks

1. All caches placed in Blaine Parks must be registered, unregistered caches will be removed.
5. Caches must be at least 1/2 mile apart, and 1/10 of a mile from an existing trail.

Item #1: It applies to Blaine Parks. What about the rest of Blaine public areas? How about the Blaine Open Area? How about bike trails along roads?

Item #5: I would assume that the cache must be within 0.1 mile from an existing trail and not that it must be 0.1 mile from an existing trail. This makes sense if their intent is to minimize the impact on the environment.


The Blaine city parks system would only have jurisdiction and/or authority over Blaine city parks.


I wouldn't assume that. It is quite possible the city trails and/or open spaces are under the jurisdiction of the park system. For instance, Ramsey County Open Spaces are part of Ramsey County Parks and their geocaching policy applies to them.


My thinking was that Blaine can't control hides in stop signs and the Walmart parking lot. I'd consider open spaces equivalent to city parks. No assumptions made.
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minnesotabrad
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Posts: 1267

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard back from Blaine and his responses are on bold in the email I had sent him. He is open with meeting with the MnGCA and geocachers in the Blaine area. Who would be willing to meet with him to discuss the policy? Please let me know and I will work on getting something scheduled.




Here is a link that show you the guidelines that are already in place on geocaching.com http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx



If there has not been any issues why the need to create a policy for something that has been going on for years? We now offer geocaching programs and rent GPSs. Guidelines were developed to assist geocachers in placement of caches and to protect the parks. Most of the policy that has been put in place is restrictive. Generally any time a registration process is put in place it is found that because of the work load of most public employees that there can be a long period of time before the cacher hears for the person who reviews and approves the cache. It is possible for a person from the Parks Department to get a free premium membership from Groundspeak to be able to see the caches that are in the parks and monitor them that way as opposed to a review process. Another issue we see with a registration process is that many people start geocaching and may hide a few but eventually quit the hobby and archive their caches and there is no way for the Parks Department to know when a cache is no longer there.



Why the distance of 1/2 mile instead of the .10 that is already in place? We may consider changing this distance. Most cachers like to be able to spend time in the parks and many times practice Cache In Trash Out caching where they pick up trash as they cache. The more caches they can do in a park the more benefit the park may see from cachers that cache this way.



Not sure of the distance from an existing trail requirement and the reason for it. Again, we may change this distance. Most park would prefer the caches closer to a trail so there would be less impact on the environment from people going too far off trail.



Why the restriction on number of caches placed by a cacher? We established the limit on a per geocacher basis. We would like to have as many geochacers enjoy the park and want to avoid over-caching in one park. Not all cachers hide caches and other really enjoy hiding them and are very creative in their hides. It is also easier for a cacher that has hidden caches to perform maintenance on their caches when they have them together in areas.



Another question from some is what is meant by having to be retrieved from standing position? It makes it easier to retrieve without damage to habitat or plant life.



Geocaching is a great outdoor activity and is also a fun family activity enjoyed by people of all ages and abilities. I think you will find that most geocachers are responsible and that the hobby does a good job of self regulating itself. I would also encourage you to contact cities like Maple Grove that had a similar policy and found that the parks were not getting used much by geocachers and that the work involved in the registration process could take an amount of time that was more than they realized and eventually decided that the guidelines that geocaching have already in place were sufficient.



Thank you for your time and hope to hear from you soon.



Brad
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Mrs. Mizzou
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 31 Oct 2007

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will join in the discussion in Blaine (but live in Maple Grove so looking for residents).
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, I started a discussion in the Member's Only area about how the MnGCA could respond to the Blaine policy:

http://mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6287
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topgear
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Joined: 20 Oct 2007

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me know when and where, and I'll try to be there. It sounds like the city of Blaine thinks they found a way to make some extra money. I wonder how much they made renting out GPS's! I have a lot of hides in Blaine, but this just turns me off, when it comes to hiding them in a Blaine, Ramsey or other locations that require an extra O.K. just to get them published. I fully understand how they want to protect the natural environment. I'm all for that, but I think Geocaching is the one activity that does the least amount of damage. We don't require expensive paved trails maintained ball fields, or a bunch of clear cuts in woods just to throw a Frisbee. How many teens practice "Frisbee in Trash out". Geocaching is the one thing that a lot of times, gets the whole family out and enjoys these parks. I'm sorry, but I feel that to many new regulations, is just taking the fun out of it for me. I drove by 2 Blaine parks a couple days ago. Neither of them have a cache in them, but I just didn't want to go threw the hassle. Maybe someone will, and I can go for a smiley Razz.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaine has released new guidelines. Personally I find them to be pretty good.

Please pay attention to the fact that they require the cache name to be written on the exterior of the container.

http://mngca.org/node/911
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