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Park Hours for night caching
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tesser
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Joined: 24 May 2006

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am updating the park hours as I will be discussing this at the Commission meeting TOMORROW. If anyone wants to come to the meeting and speak in favor of longer hours for Maplewood - PLEASE COME! We meet at 7 pm in council chambers.

Mahtomedi has extended its hours!

10.02 HOURS OF OPERATION.
1. Parks will be open for public use from 5 a.m. until 10 p.m., unless posted otherwise.

Oh, and warning to GILBY: White Bear Township lists tree-climbing as an illegal activity!
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pfalstad
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tesser wrote:
Oh, and warning to GILBY: White Bear Township lists tree-climbing as an illegal activity!

Shocked Crying or Very sad
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bflentje
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Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4033

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tesser wrote:
Oh, and warning to GILBY: White Bear Township lists tree-climbing as an illegal activity!


The fun has to be removed from everything.. Sad Sad Sad
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WestSideDaddy
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

City of Crystal parks are open from 6:00am to 10:00pm.
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tesser
Geocacher


Joined: 24 May 2006

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading through park ordinances is kinda funny sometimes. In one you couldn't drop a fruit or vegetable peel that might make someone slip. No banana peels folks! I found another that banned tree-climbing, and more that do not allow any throwing of stones.

Many also have ordinances that could be used, as Anoka County once did, to ban geocaching. Those prohibit leaving any personal property on park land.

I cannot stress how important it is to not cache in a manner that upsets park and city officials. They have bigger fish to fry than us, I know, but we don't need to call negative attention to ourselves.
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tesser
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Joined: 24 May 2006

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WestSideDaddy wrote:
City of Crystal parks are open from 6:00am to 10:00pm.


Do you see that posted? I found: 815.05. Parks; rules and regulations. Subdivision 1. Closing hours. The closing hour for parks is 10:00
p.m., except in Becker Park where the closing hour is 11:00 p.m., and parks must remain closed until sunrise.
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Jam3s
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Joined: 26 Oct 2008

Posts: 842

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stearns County Parks are open 6am to 11pm. Perfect for night caching in any season!
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WestSideDaddy
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 06 Apr 2010

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tesser wrote:
WestSideDaddy wrote:
City of Crystal parks are open from 6:00am to 10:00pm.


Do you see that posted? I found: 815.05. Parks; rules and regulations. Subdivision 1. Closing hours. The closing hour for parks is 10:00
p.m., except in Becker Park where the closing hour is 11:00 p.m., and parks must remain closed until sunrise.


It's strange the way it is phrased (when they are closed as opposed to when they are open) which is closed from 10:00pm till sunrise. But being on the Crystal parks commission I know that we use the guidelines of 6:00am to 10:00pm.
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tesser
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Joined: 24 May 2006

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I presented the facts about the metro communities and their park hours with a map. There really was no argument that we should extend hours. The only major question was what hours do we pick? Someone made a motion for 5 am to 10 pm. I was thinking 6 am to 10 pm when I arrived, so this was even longer! It was seconded and approved unanimously! It now goes to City Council, which, unfortunately, only meets once more in 2010 and that agenda is already set. We'll see if they can sneak this in, otherwise it will be 2011 before a change.

Who's next?

edited to correct to 10 pm!


Last edited by tesser on Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5692

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tesser wrote:
Well, I presented the facts about the metro communities and their park hours with a map. There really was no argument that we should extend hours. The only major question was what hours do we pick? Someone made a motion for 5 am to 10 am. I was thinking 6 am to 10 pm when I arrived, so this was even longer! It was seconded and approved unanimously! It now goes to City Council, which, unfortunately, only meets once more in 2010 and that agenda is already set. We'll see if they can sneak this in, otherwise it will be 2011 before a change.

Who's next?


What I find interesting about this (and there may be more to it then you have here as I wasn't there) is that it isn't about WHY the hours are set to what they are (crime?, enforcement problems?, etc), it's about what the other guy is doing. Confused
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tesser
Geocacher


Joined: 24 May 2006

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
What I find interesting about this (and there may be more to it then you have here as I wasn't there) is that it isn't about WHY the hours are set to what they are (crime?, enforcement problems?, etc), it's about what the other guy is doing. Confused


I waited for there to be objections due to lighting and crime issues, but no one brought it up and I wasn't going to. I didn't even need to bring up geocaching Very Happy I waited for the question "who wants to be in the park in the dark anyway?" I suspect the City Council may face questions once the police chief hears about our decision. The Parks staff had no problem with the change. They seemed to think it was long overdue.
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Grey Wolf and Wild Rice
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Joined: 31 May 2005

Posts: 380

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the PD certainly will want enforceable hours so they can remove people causing trouble in parks late at night, I often see park hours as not reflecting typical usage by the people who pay for the parks.

For example:
- Opening times often are not early enough for people to walk, run, or walk their dogs in the morning before work if a 7 am or sunrise based time is set.

-Closing times based on a sunset time do not take the earlier sunset times of winter into account. In winter parks might be heavily used for winter activities such as skating, skiing, or sliding well after sunset.

- I have seen a few parks with lighted walking trails and signs stating the park is closed at sunset. Sounds like whoever got funding for the lights forgot about park hours?

Here's an odd one: Blaine Parks have signage stating the park closes at a certain time (I forgot the exact time), but say nothing about when they open.

I think you are going to find that the main purpose of park hours is a tool for the PD to remove vandals and late night partys.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5692

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grey Wolf and Wild Rice wrote:
I think you are going to find that the main purpose of park hours is a tool for the PD to remove vandals and late night partys.


This could turn into a whole discussion on it's own, but to me it's a step in the wrong direction to exclude the legitimate use of the parks so that the police don't need to worry as much about patroling it for criminal activity.
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tesser
Geocacher


Joined: 24 May 2006

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I was going to say at the meeting, if there was debate, was that criminals are probably already in the park at night despite the law. The law is only kicking out the good people. By allowing all people in, the partiers, etc. are more likely to go elsewhere.

I didn't want to use the modified gun debate slogan "if you outlaw people in parks at night only outlaws will have parks at night."
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tesser
Geocacher


Joined: 24 May 2006

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grey Wolf and Wild Rice wrote:
Opening times often are not early enough for people to walk, run, or walk their dogs in the morning before work if a 7 am or sunrise based time is set.


We did talk about that last night, and that, I think, is why 5 am was proposed.

Bill - when are you gonna ask White Bear Twp to change their hours? WBL has long hours.
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