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Three Rivers Guidelines Update
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

Posts: 1991
Location: Mound MN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Three Rivers Guidelines Update Reply with quote

Three Rivers has posted the updated guidelines to their site. You can view them here

We discussed with them the new .25 distance rule in relation to the 25 ft trail rule. We pointed out that trails are not linear in nature thus the total number of caches per park "may" go down. However, with that change they removed the maximum number of caches per park, which is beneficial to the large parks like Elm Creek and Hyland-Bush Lake. At this time they want to monitor it to see if it becomes an issue. Any and all caches that are currently in the park are grandfathered in and do not need to meet the new guidelines. Therefore caches that are now .1 apart will be allowed to remain.

Overall, this was a good thing for us. We established a very good working relationship with Three Rivers and they are very open to comments and suggestions. I think that by removing the "max" number of caches per park, this should open up a lot of space in many of the parks.

Feel free to contact me or the board if you have any questions.

NOTE: These where approved and are now in effect.

Here are the major changes:
Code:
Superintendentís Recommendation:

NO ACTION REQUIRED; THIS ITEM IS FOR INFORMATION AND DISCUSSION.
 

Background:

Geocaching is a recreational pursuit that brings technology and nature together.  Participants use Global Positional System (GPS) equipment to find caches that are hidden throughout the world.  Individuals place caches, post the coordinates and other information on the Internet for other people to use to locate the hidden treasures. 

The Park District implemented a geocaching program in 2002 and established guidelines to direct the actions of geocachers within the Park District.  The guidelines were revised again in 2005. 

After meeting with a representative of the Minnesota Geocache Association last September, staff is proposing additional revisions to the guidelines based on seven years of geocaching experience. The proposed revisions include:

          o Permitting geocaching on the Wawatossa and Goose islands in Lake Minnetonka, and at Silverwood Park.
          o Prohibiting placement of geocaches in landscape plantings within Three Rivers Park District.
          o Prohibiting placement of geocaches within .25 miles of each other with no maximum number of geocaches per park. The current guidelines prohibit placement of a geocache within .1 miles of another, and limits the number of geocaches within a park to 20.  Discussion with other regional park agencies supports a distance restriction rather than a maximum number of geocaches which has required significant monitoring by staff.

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Last edited by speedysk1 on Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:15 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5676
Location: north of Duluth

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear, this is now in effect?

The text you included indicates it's a recommendation and the last sentence says "If approved...", so I just wanted to be clear.
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1007
Location: Edina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case anyone else is wondering about the new islands, they're labeled on google earth. Wawatosa is at N44 54.090 W93 39.030 and Goose is at N44 55.258 W93 37.847.

I definitely think removing the max caches per park rule is worth the .25 mile limitation.
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

Posts: 1991
Location: Mound MN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
Just to be clear, this is now in effect?

The text you included indicates it's a recommendation and the last sentence says "If approved...", so I just wanted to be clear.


Good point. Yes, these rules are now in effect. That was the meeting minutes from the board meeting. I'll update my original post.
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msteffel
Geocacher


Joined: 15 Jun 2007

Posts: 415
Location: Eden Prairie

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purely theoretically question Wink. (Though probably is one for SJ)

Lets say Three Rivers approved a cache a while ago and the cacher, who will remain nameless (but clearly isn't too bright and is quite lazy), hasn't found the time due to [insert excuses here] to get the cache placed and submitted for approval by SJ. This theoretical cache is within .25 of the nearest cache.

Would it still be grandfathered in because it was previously approved by Three Rivers or has this cachers laziness caught up with him/her and he'll have to find a new spot?

Totally unrelated question to the one above, just for clarity...
Is that .25 miles from another cache in the park or any cache? I'd assume another cache in the park, else someone could place a cache not on park land that would theoretically invalidate a cache that was placed near the edge of a park.
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

Posts: 1991
Location: Mound MN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

msteffel wrote:
Purely theoretically question Wink. (Though probably is one for SJ)

Lets say Three Rivers approved a cache a while ago and the cacher, who will remain nameless (but clearly isn't too bright and is quite lazy), hasn't found the time due to [insert excuses here] to get the cache placed and submitted for approval by SJ. This theoretical cache is within .25 of the nearest cache.

Would it still be grandfathered in because it was previously approved by Three Rivers or has this cachers laziness caught up with him/her and he'll have to find a new spot?

Totally unrelated question to the one above, just for clarity...
Is that .25 miles from another cache in the park or any cache? I'd assume another cache in the park, else someone could place a cache not on park land that would theoretically invalidate a cache that was placed near the edge of a park.


Good Questions.

If you have previous approval by 3 Rivers, you are grandfathered in. The "spot" is already on her list if it's been approved by Marlene. When their was the max per park rule, once the spot is approved by Marlene it took up one of the spots available. I don't think there are many spots like this though so it shouldn't be an issue. But I would nudge the cacher to put the cache out as soon as possible to help avoid confusion. Wink

The .25 rule applies to caches within the park system. So, theoretically you can have 2 caches .1 apart, with 1 outside the park and one inside the park. This is how I understand the rule, but note that the approval is coming from three rivers and not SJ. If you get approval from three rivers and the cache meets the geocaching guidelines from groundspeak, it's my understanding, he will publish it. I hope that's clear. Let me know if it's not.

Keep those cards and letters coming. Wink

Cheers!
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msteffel
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Joined: 15 Jun 2007

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Location: Eden Prairie

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedysk1 wrote:
But I would nudge the cacher to put the cache out as soon as possible to help avoid confusion. Wink

I'll try and get it out and published soo... err, I mean, I'll try and light a fire under his/her rear end.

speedysk1 wrote:
I hope that's clear.

Crystal clear! Thanks!
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

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Location: Edina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this cache was approved more than two years ago, you might want to send a reminder note to Marlene? Wink
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timewellspent
Geocacher


Joined: 19 Mar 2008

Posts: 697
Location: Chanhassen, MN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
If this cache was approved more than two years ago, you might want to send a reminder note to Marlene? Wink


ROFLMAO!!! Laughing Laughing
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msteffel
Geocacher


Joined: 15 Jun 2007

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Location: Eden Prairie

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

11/4/09... so only a little over 4 months Embarassed Nothing close to 2 years! Shocked

That is just so sad.
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

Posts: 1991
Location: Mound MN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

msteffel wrote:
11/4/09... so only a little over 4 months Embarassed Nothing close to 2 years! Shocked

That is just so sad.


"Your friend" might want to send an email to Marlene, but I think you, I mean "your friend", should be ok. Laughing
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Moe the Sleaze
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Location: Champlin, MN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd think Surfer Joe would need to defer to Marlene on this situation.
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

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Location: Mound MN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
I'd think Surfer Joe would need to defer to Marlene on this situation.


You seem to know this Surfer Joe character pretty well. Smile
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team_geomonkey
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were to place a multi-cache in a Three Rivers park, do all stages need to be .25 apart? Is it just the final stage that is .25 from closest cache or would it be the first stage that is .25 from closest cache? Also, the policy states .25 from center of trail - is a dirt road going through park considered a trail?
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speedysk1
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Oct 2007

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Location: Mound MN

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

team_geomonkey wrote:
If I were to place a multi-cache in a Three Rivers park, do all stages need to be .25 apart?


I don't think so, but you can check with Marlene to be sure.

team_geomonkey wrote:
Is it just the final stage that is .25 from closest cache or would it be the first stage that is .25 from closest cache?


I believe this would apply to the final stage only. Keep in mind though that GC.com guidelines stipulate that all stages must be at least .1 from other caches. Your stages don't need to be that far apart but each stage can't be closer than .1 from another cache.

team_geomonkey wrote:
Also, the policy states .25 from center of trail - is a dirt road going through park considered a trail?


Again, I'll have to defer to Marlene, but I would think they would work with you if there's a road.


You have excellent questions, but ultimately these decisions are up to Marlene and Three Rivers. I'll check with her to see what she says, but they still can veto a cache if they don't like the spot.
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