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Pocket Query routes for bike trails - site now up
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saulih
Geocacher


Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Pocket Query routes for bike trails - site now up Reply with quote

After recently trying GC'ing while biking I got interested in learning more about pocket query routes, and how to set them for routes that do not follow roads.

. After playing a bit, I realized that others might be able to use the stuff I was pulling together, so I have dropped it on a blog site I had sitting idle. So far there is a page for the
Gateway Trail, and the Bruce Vento Trail (almost complete)..

I have a way for people to rate the trail, view a map, an elevation profile, key waypoints for access, as well some notes about how many caches along the route.

Let me know what you think - there is a place to comment on the pages, email me, whatever.

Feel free to link to the page on your cache descriptions if you have a cache along one of the routes.

Thanks

Sauli
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5707

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Pocket Query routes for bike trails - site now up Reply with quote

saulih wrote:
After recently trying GC'ing while biking I got interested in learning more about pocket query routes, and how to set them for routes that do not follow roads.

. After playing a bit, I realized that others might be able to use the stuff I was pulling together, so I have dropped it on a blog site I had sitting idle. So far there is a page for the
Gateway Trail, and the Bruce Vento Trail (almost complete)..

I have a way for people to rate the trail, view a map, an elevation profile, key waypoints for access, as well some notes about how many caches along the route.

Let me know what you think - there is a place to comment on the pages, email me, whatever.

Feel free to link to the page on your cache descriptions if you have a cache along one of the routes.

Thanks

Sauli


While I'm not much of a biker and don't live in the cities, I have to say this looks like some helpful information. I caution you though not to offer too much information (or you'll end up violating the terms of service with Groundspeak).
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saulih
Geocacher


Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Pocket Query routes for bike trails - site now up Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:


While I'm not much of a biker and don't live in the cities, I have to say this looks like some helpful information. I caution you though not to offer too much information (or you'll end up violating the terms of service with Groundspeak).


That would merely be with cache locations etc... no?... what terms would I be crossing paths with?
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5707

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Pocket Query routes for bike trails - site now up Reply with quote

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one:

saulih wrote:
Pear Head wrote:


While I'm not much of a biker and don't live in the cities, I have to say this looks like some helpful information. I caution you though not to offer too much information (or you'll end up violating the terms of service with Groundspeak).


That would merely be with cache locations etc... no?... what terms would I be crossing paths with?


That would be my interpretation, yes. I would think giving some generalized locations would be fine, but I think the bottom line is that Groundspeak won't be happy if someone can get to the cache without having to first visit their site.

I don't know that they'd ever notice what you've done, but it may not be worth finding out either...

http://www.geocaching.com/about/termsofuse.aspx
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saulih
Geocacher


Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Pocket Query routes for bike trails - site now up Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:

That would be my interpretation, yes. I would think giving some generalized locations would be fine, but I think the bottom line is that Groundspeak won't be happy if someone can get to the cache without having to first visit their site.

I don't know that they'd ever notice what you've done, but it may not be worth finding out either...

http://www.geocaching.com/about/termsofuse.aspx


I have no intent of id'ing any specific cache, just overviewing the trail etc.

In any case groundspeak has bigger issues with sites like this one! I don't think the owner realizes that it is publicly visible.[/url]
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Sharknose Bunnies
Geocacher


Joined: 29 Jun 2009

Posts: 303

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool. I've been doing this manually for the Luce Line, but it takes time to figure out where the trail goes on the map, and which caches are "trail friendly". As you build up more routes, I could see this being an awesome resource. My son and I have been doing bike caching on a weekly basis, and we'll be looking for new routes at some point.

I wonder as well about the terms of use with Groundspeak, and whether it wouldn't be better to remove the specific coordinates of the caches and replace them with links to the caches (like you've got in the beginning of the ariticle). But I'm speaking from complete ignorance on this one, so more power to you whatever way you go with it! Very Happy
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Sharknose Bunnies
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Joined: 29 Jun 2009

Posts: 303

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, forget my earlier concern with Groundspeak. I see that you've posted parking/landmark coordinates. I thought they were the coordinates for individual caches. My bad.
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saulih
Geocacher


Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharknose Bunnies wrote:
Oh, forget my earlier concern with Groundspeak. I see that you've posted parking/landmark coordinates. I thought they were the coordinates for individual caches. My bad.


Yeah, you would use the pocket query link, to build your own notification for caches. I think a few caches owners (including myself if I were one of them) would get pretty ticked off Mad Mad Mad , if I posted their locations!!!
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saulih
Geocacher


Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharknose Bunnies wrote:
Very cool. I've been doing this manually for the Luce Line, but it takes time to figure out where the trail goes on the map, and which caches are "trail friendly". As you build up more routes, I could see this being an awesome resource. My son and I have been doing bike caching on a weekly basis, and we'll be looking for new routes at some point.

I wonder as well about the terms of use with Groundspeak, and whether it wouldn't be better to remove the specific coordinates of the caches and replace them with links to the caches (like you've got in the beginning of the ariticle). But I'm speaking from complete ignorance on this one, so more power to you whatever way you go with it! Very Happy


If you want the actual trail route as a downloadable file, use the kmz download from the sidebar. It is far more accurate than the route from GC.com. The GC.com software modifies the route dramatically (you lose detail - see the Lake Phalen route image for instance - that route when uploaded to GC.com was following the trail perfectly, and then it butchered it.)The download has routes that are far more precise.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5707

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharknose Bunnies wrote:
Oh, forget my earlier concern with Groundspeak. I see that you've posted parking/landmark coordinates. I thought they were the coordinates for individual caches. My bad.


Ahh - I made the same mistake.
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Sharknose Bunnies
Geocacher


Joined: 29 Jun 2009

Posts: 303

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saulih wrote:
Sharknose Bunnies wrote:
Very cool. I've been doing this manually for the Luce Line, but it takes time to figure out where the trail goes on the map, and which caches are "trail friendly". As you build up more routes, I could see this being an awesome resource. My son and I have been doing bike caching on a weekly basis, and we'll be looking for new routes at some point.

I wonder as well about the terms of use with Groundspeak, and whether it wouldn't be better to remove the specific coordinates of the caches and replace them with links to the caches (like you've got in the beginning of the ariticle). But I'm speaking from complete ignorance on this one, so more power to you whatever way you go with it! Very Happy


If you want the actual trail route as a downloadable file, use the kmz download from the sidebar. It is far more accurate than the route from GC.com. The GC.com software modifies the route dramatically (you lose detail - see the Lake Phalen route image for instance - that route when uploaded to GC.com was following the trail perfectly, and then it butchered it.)The download has routes that are far more precise.


Wait a second...

Does this mean that you can build a point-to-point kmz file in Google Earth and connect that to a pocket query request that will generate a gpx file with all the nearby caches? Except that GC.com will modify the route to a degree?
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saulih
Geocacher


Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharknose Bunnies wrote:


Wait a second...

Does this mean that you can build a point-to-point kmz file in Google Earth and connect that to a pocket query request that will generate a gpx file with all the nearby caches? Except that GC.com will modify the route to a degree?


You got it.

Once you build your route in GE, save that one route (r'click on the route in the GE sidebar, click "Save Place as..." and then select either as kmx/kml file type. KML is handier because you can then load that KML file into http://www.nearby.org.uk/elevation-kml.php to get the elevation information filled (GE might have a way to do this directly - I have not checked into that), and then that file can be mapped through http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/profile_input to get the profile. (I take it one step by reloading back into GE including the waypoints in a KMZ file which then get included in the profile.

GC.com modifies whatever you feed it - simplifying the route.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4054

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's even better, if you use Garmin MapSource, you can use the routing tool on the maps so you can actually see roads, use the View in Google Earth function, and save it out as a KML or KMZ. I find drawing routes in GE a real pain in the butt when looking at sat images.
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saulih
Geocacher


Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bflentje wrote:
What's even better, if you use Garmin MapSource, you can use the routing tool on the maps so you can actually see roads, use the View in Google Earth function, and save it out as a KML or KMZ. I find drawing routes in GE a real pain in the butt when looking at sat images.


Would that imply that you need to be a garmin GPSr user?
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GeoPierce
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Nov 2005

Posts: 1657

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

saulih wrote:
Would that imply that you need to be a garmin GPSr user?

Isn't everyone a Garmin user? Hey, keep it on topic! Laughing
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