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Arcade/Emulation Talk

 
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC0GRN wrote:
Actually on the handsping visor, you could probably get a Gameboy emulator, that way you could have pokemon too, that is, if you really want to play pokemon.....

I had a 200mhz ARM PocketPC and the NES emulator for that wasn't exactly speedy. I can't imagine games running all that well on the Handspring's DragonBall CPU. But then again I have never actually used it so I could be way off base.
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KC0GRN
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

depends on how well the emulator is written of course. No you can't work miracles with a slower processor, but then again the old gameboys weren't exactly powerhouses themselves, the architecture probably didn't differ much from the NES, perhaps even slightly simpler as all it needed to run was grayscale.

But I guess I never wanted to try using one on mine anyways, the controls aren't the same and there's tons of games for the Palm OS anyways.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC0GRN wrote:
depends on how well the emulator is written of course. No you can't work miracles with a slower processor, but then again the old gameboys weren't exactly powerhouses themselves, the architecture probably didn't differ much from the NES, perhaps even slightly simpler as all it needed to run was grayscale.

The Gameboy used a modified Z80 processor (basically the same as what was in the older TI-85 calculators and some other computers). The Z80 itself (IIRC) was never intended to be graphics intensive so the Gameboy had some additional calls for graphics.

The NES (again, IIRC) ran a 6502 processor at something like 1.8mhz. Some of the more graphics intensive games (that required background scrolling and the like) came with a "super cartridge" that had an on board Z80 processor dedicated to graphics processing.

Now, while these processors were slow they did do what they were intended to well. Mostly because programmers were using tricks to make stuff run faster (oh how I wish we would return to those days). The Palm's and PPC's of today have to run an OS, then an emulation level, then the game. The horsepower can't always handle this so the games feel slow, jerky, etc.
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KC0GRN
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Joined: 22 Feb 2004

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
Mostly because programmers were using tricks to make stuff run faster (oh how I wish we would return to those days)


Agreed.

Yeah emulators aren't going to work miracles on other systems, especially on a low end platform such as a palm pilot, but people try it anyways for the sheer heck of doing it. I'm not sayin I'd play em anyways, the emulator would take up a chunk of memory, then every game rom you'd load up would take another, all that for something that won't run as well, nor have the same controls, as the original. Guess I just figured if you REALLY wanted to play pokemon on your Visor/GPS hybrid, you could theoretically do it, and skip the gameboy altogether. But I'm guessin if you like to play pokemon, you'll probably have a gameboy anyways.
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SirPoonga
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003

Posts: 144
Location: Marshfield, WI :(

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the z80 is very popular proc that has been emulatied thousands of times (see www.mame.net Smile ). I have a z80 simulator that I have used to programming for one.

Anyway, talking early PDAs, the Visor was about twice as powerful as the palm when it came out. Also you could over clock it by like 4x-5x. You probably could do some gameboy emulation off that, original gameboy.

And emulation for PDAs, they are MUCH more powerful now than they use to be. Last year I saw Doom played on one. I know there are a couple od ports of mame for some pda platforms. One of the guys at BYOAC made a mini pacman cab powered by a Cassiopeia E-100 pda running a mame port. Let me find that link.... you have to go to about page 3 (reply #116 for the micropac) to start seeing the entries. Uh oh, looks like he might have taken his pics down, dang. Reply #112 has a partial pic.
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=10462
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And to think I have been trying to find a way to get out of paying $300 for a new Ms. Pacman monitor when I could have been powering the entire thing from my old E-125!
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SirPoonga
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Location: Marshfield, WI :(

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

$300! Do you want new?

Let's see, it's a ms pacman cabinet too (not conversion?) so it takes a standard 19" monitor ....

If you don't want/need new you can easily get used. Many ways to look for that. Either find local vendors. I got a working double dragon II cabinet (without monitor) for free from a vendor who wanted to clear out his warehouse. To find a local vendor it easy, just go to the local bar or where ever there is an arcade machine (or pinball) and check out the vendor sticker (usually on the back of the machine though). They can be tough to find in the phone book sometimes. They might have used monitors that are in good condition if somehow the rest of the machine went bad (IE water damage, etc...)
Also check out the rgvac newsgroup (rec.games.video.arcade.collecting). Make a request to buy there. Use www.deja.com or your newsgroup reader of choice.
Ebay of course. I picked up a new 19" hybrid arcade monitor for $150. Hybrid meaning it's VGA but in an arcade chassis so that wouldn't work for you.
You might be able to find something in the buy/sell/trade forum at www.byoac.com.

Otherwise goto the super auction when it comes into town.
http://www.superauctions.com/

I wouldn't pay Happ prices for a new monitor, if you want to buy new. I'd go straight to wells-gardner and buy from direct. Bob Roberts "might" have something, you have to email him. He's an awesome dude for arcade parts. www.therealbobroberts.com But then it would have to be shipped from Louisiana most likely.

Find a cheap 19" should be easy, it's a popular 1980s size monitor Smile 19" standard resolution is in about 85% of the 1980s- early 90s cabinets. 13" was in the cocktail cabinets. Now a vector monitor for my uncle's Asteroids is tough to find! Those have been out of production.

Ok, a little off topic now Laughing


Last edited by SirPoonga on Mon May 10, 2004 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SirPoonga wrote:
Find a cheap 19" should be easy, it's a popular 1980s size monitor Smile 19" standard resolution is in about 85% of the 1980s- early 90s cabinets. 13" was in the cocktail cabinets. Now a vector monitor for my uncle's Asteroids is tough to find! Those have been out of production.

This cocktail table has a 19" from what I understand.
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SirPoonga
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, you have the cocktial table. Well, still look in all those places.
You had, basically, three cocktial table designs. Midways (pacman, galaga, etc), the atari football style, or other atari style used with asteroids or space duel Atari used 13" mostly, midway used 19".

Do you have an actual midway ms pacman cocktail? So yeah, you'd have a 19" monitor in the cockatil. Midway was cool like that. I can't stand some of the vertical monitor games that use 13" and orientated them in the cabinet so you sat on the horizontal side. What a waste of space!

If, for some reason, you ever need to replace the artwork on it www.twobits.com is the official Namco repoduction place. You won't find it anyware else except maybe vendors as Namco hunts down and kills anyone trying to do anything pacman. I am a pacman nut (does the avatar give that away?)

I want to make a cocktail cabinet sometime, modelled after pacman. Will make it black and chrome themed. I even have atari volcano buttons to put on it (now those are hard to find cheap). It will be jamma so I can run a PC (with jamma parts) or an arcade board in it and will only be for vertical games. My double dragon II is going to get converted into a multijamma machine. http://www.multigame.com/jamma.html Well, it's jamma already, just need to get that device Smile I've been collecting jamma board. So far I have double dragon II (duh), double dragon I, and 1942. Once I get a job again I am going to go after a Mr. Do! machine a friend of mine has. He is willing to sell it to me.

I don't know if you have seen my machine.
http://free.hostdepartment.com/S/SirPoonga/yabcab.html
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SirPoonga wrote:
Do you have an actual midway ms pacman cocktail? So yeah, you'd have a 19" monitor in the cockatil. Midway was cool like that. I can't stand some of the vertical monitor games that use 13" and orientated them in the cabinet so you sat on the horizontal side. What a waste of space!

I have an *original* from 1982 (IIRC that's when Ms. Pacman was released). The monitor was also original and I am impressed it lasted as long as it did.

The artwork is fine.

I would need to replace the controls though. I would prefer something that would survive another two years (Happ).

I just need to cut down the cost of the monitor to something reasonable Smile
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Moe the Sleaze
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003

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Location: Champlin, MN

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silent Bob wrote:
I just need to cut down the cost of the monitor to something reasonable


Yeah, cuz you have so much invested in the system already. Laughing
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
Yeah, cuz you have so much invested in the system already. Laughing

You make all my hard work seem so trivial Wink
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SirPoonga
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:

I would need to replace the controls though. I would prefer something that would survive another two years (Happ).


Whatever you do don't pay happ prices! They are very expensive. Lucky you that the ms pacman/galaga reunion cabinets are out. You can find replacement 4 way cocktail joys and buttons easy on ebay or from bob roberts.

Does the cabinet use microswitches, I can't remember but I think it did. If the joystick itself is in good condition you could just replace the switches.

Again, Bob Roberts is the best place to get this stuff. you have to email him your requests, not look at his website, he hardly keeps that up to date. But he is probably one of the best people to get along with. http://www.therealbobroberts.com
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