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deleting "discovers"
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NYSandy23
Geocacher


Joined: 11 Jun 2007

Posts: 167

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question really should be "can people make their own rules about the sport?" Why then have a governing body who sets rules? I guess I believe one should make the sport less restictive without compromising safety to help grow and enhance enjoyment rather than restrict who can log and how they play the game.
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If you're successful in what you do over a period of time, you'll start approaching records, but that's not what you're playing for. You're playing to challenge and be challenged.--Lou Brock
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYSandy23 wrote:
The question really should be "can people make their own rules about the sport?" Why then have a governing body who sets rules? I guess I believe one should make the sport less restictive without compromising safety to help grow and enhance enjoyment rather than restrict who can log and how they play the game.

The governing body (geocaching.com) says that a TB owner can do whatever they please with a TB.
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sir_zman
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 30 Jun 2005

Posts: 1768

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:

The governing body (geocaching.com) says that a TB owner can do whatever they please with a TB.


Where do you see that? I have been trying to locate the exact rules on coin logging and I haven't found anything; let alone a rule that says the owner can do what ever they please.
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bflentje
Geocacher


Joined: 29 May 2006

Posts: 4067

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sir_zman wrote:
Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:

The governing body (geocaching.com) says that a TB owner can do whatever they please with a TB.


Where do you see that? I have been trying to locate the exact rules on coin logging and I haven't found anything; let alone a rule that says the owner can do what ever they please.


Does it have to do with the existence of the discover and delete buttons?
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sir_zman wrote:
Where do you see that? I have been trying to locate the exact rules on coin logging and I haven't found anything; let alone a rule that says the owner can do what ever they please.

From: http://www.geocaching.com/track/geocoinfaq.aspx (emphasis mine)

Quote:
Is there any Geocoin etiquette?
The most common question on etiquette relates to what to do if you find a Geocoin. Keep it? Move it to another geocache? The answer always depends on the goal its owner has set for it. Usually the best way to find the answer to these questions is to visit the geocoinís personal home page and read the description it contains. If there is a theme or special instructions from the owner you should do your best to adhere to the geocoinís goal, or send an email to the owner for more clarification.

In addition, selling a coin which doesnít belong to you is generally frowned upon unless you have received express permission from its owner. How can I stop someone from selling a geocoin I gave them?

If you create your own series of geocoins and wish to prevent people from selling them, it is recommended you activate all of your coins on Geocaching.com before they leave your possession. This gives you a claim to ownership and, once reported, allows us to deactivate the coin at your request. If you have given any geocoins away which have not been activated, we consider it to be a transfer of ownership and cannot intervene. Think ahead!

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NYSandy23
Geocacher


Joined: 11 Jun 2007

Posts: 167

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
sir_zman wrote:
Where do you see that? I have been trying to locate the exact rules on coin logging and I haven't found anything; let alone a rule that says the owner can do what ever they please.

From: http://www.geocaching.com/track/geocoinfaq.aspx (emphasis mine)

Quote:
Is there any Geocoin etiquette?
The most common question on etiquette relates to what to do if you find a Geocoin. Keep it? Move it to another geocache? The answer always depends on the goal its owner has set for it. Usually the best way to find the answer to these questions is to visit the geocoinís personal home page and read the description it contains. If there is a theme or special instructions from the owner you should do your best to adhere to the geocoinís goal, or send an email to the owner for more clarification.

In addition, selling a coin which doesnít belong to you is generally frowned upon unless you have received express permission from its owner. How can I stop someone from selling a geocoin I gave them?

If you create your own series of geocoins and wish to prevent people from selling them, it is recommended you activate all of your coins on Geocaching.com before they leave your possession. This gives you a claim to ownership and, once reported, allows us to deactivate the coin at your request. If you have given any geocoins away which have not been activated, we consider it to be a transfer of ownership and cannot intervene. Think ahead!


At the risk of being argumentative, prior to the above quote from geocaching.com, (which relates specifically to goals or the coin owners) there is this:
How do Geocoins work?
Because each geocoin is assigned a unique tracking number its progress can be tracked online through logs which the finder posts. There are different types of logs which can be made on a geocoin's personal home page, whether for virtually picking up or dropping off the coin, or simply for "discovering" the coin. Youíll have the opportunity to share your thoughts on the geocoin page and to upload any photos associated with it. In addition, by logging a geocoin your online collection will reflect that you found that particular coin. (bold is my emphasis)

Nowhere does it state that you can negate the option to "discover". I would disagree that discovering and non-discovery is a goal for a coin, especially if in the course of its travels it finds its way to a table at a geo-event for viewing on its way to another cache. Ever shortstop a platter of food on its way down the table at a family dinner?
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If you're successful in what you do over a period of time, you'll start approaching records, but that's not what you're playing for. You're playing to challenge and be challenged.--Lou Brock
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't think it's right, go and complain to contact@groundspeak.com and they'll tell you something like, "the cacher owns the TB (and/or cache page) and they can delete logs as they see fit."
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spinowner
Geocacher


Joined: 25 Nov 2004

Posts: 589

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about if one were to log a grab and then immediately log a drop back in the same cache? Not a discover but the finder still gets credit for a bug "moved".
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spinowner wrote:
How about if one were to log a grab and then immediately log a drop back in the same cache? Not a discover but the finder still gets credit for a bug "moved".

I delete those as well but my TB page specifically states it must "move". I am just not quite sure why people can't pick them up and move them to the next cache and drop them there.
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MN_Cavepeople
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2005

Posts: 369

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't care less about coins and bugs...thats not how I play the game.

But, I find it funny that if you believe that everyone should be able to play the game how they want why do you look for rules saying that someone doesn't have the right to play the game the way they want because you don't agree with how they choose to play the game?

People are allowed to discover bugs and coins if they want to play that way.
But, people are also allowed to delete discovered logs for the bugs and coins they own if they want to play that way. Its two different ways to play the game, both are right, neither is wrong.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5711

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MN_Cavepeople wrote:
Its two different ways to play the game, both are right, neither is wrong.


Amen.
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pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1015

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sir_zman wrote:
I wonder what the general feeling would be if someone created a cache, and wrote on the cache page "only people whos caching name starts with the letter "F" can log a find, all others will be deleted". Would that be tolerated?

That example isn't much different from some caches that were approved in the area. Yes, they're annoying, but they're allowed. At least these TBs aren't taking up space in the parks (and in my ignore list).
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PassingWind
Geocacher


Joined: 24 Aug 2005

Posts: 53

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:
That example isn't much different from some caches that were approved in the area. Yes, they're annoying, but they're allowed. At least these TBs aren't taking up space in the parks (and in my ignore list).


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spinowner
Geocacher


Joined: 25 Nov 2004

Posts: 589

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfalstad wrote:

That example isn't much different from some caches that were approved in the area.


It would probably take about a century for me to fulfill the logging requirements for those caches.
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