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Mn State Park Geocaching History Challenge
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andrewmcc
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Jul 2007

Posts: 996

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meet with my park people today and it was great. They offered suggestions of the areas that they would like the cache they. They are trying to give focus to a historical area that had not ever been highlighted before.
I am owning the cache and maintaining the cache.
They gave me forms to claim the gas mileage as a deduction on my taxes. I found out the there is an extension to the park 15 miles away that they want a History cache in also.
To top it off, it is a demo park that is getting 10 GPSs from Best Buy so that the public can sign them out to find the caches. So they want me to put a few caches in to make it worth while for the newbies!
They want me to teach a class once a month all through the summer and train the staff.
I have a feeling that the different park management are interpreting the rules differently.

My experience was awesome!
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minnesotabrad
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Posts: 1267

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Red_Devil35"][quote="bflentje"]
herrwald wrote:
bflentje wrote:
KBayNPapaBear and I have met with both of my park managers so far. I'll tell you what, both were very nice people and very excited to be participating in this program. Although, I am somewhat disappointed in the lack of involvement we're going to be allowed.

- DNR will own the caches
- DNR will list the caches
- DNR will name the caches
- DNR will maintain the caches
- Our park managers already had spots picked out that they wanted us to check out

There was nothing left for us to do with the exception of taking a couple of averages and burn fuel. Don't get me wrong... I want to be a part of this. But it seems as if there is no room.



That is pretty much the impression I got too, I just offered suggestions about placement and took coords. The park staff will do all maintenance, own the cache, etc.


If this is the case then I may have to reconsider. I am in the area of the park I selected o a regular basis but if we are not going to be the owners of the cache listing, hopefully being able to continue the cache after the year, it will not be worth the time and fuel I may have to put in. This all really needs clarification.
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EPMinnesota
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 13 Apr 2006

Posts: 1944

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I met with my park contact today too and she already had a spot picked out (although I liked it) and it does sound like we'll have minimal need to be involved. She did ask me a lot of questions and isn't sure exactly who will be writing the page, etc. but did say that the names, etc. will be consistant and we do have to use the ammo can provided which I expected. Are multi-caches allowed? She suggested that it have 2-3 simple stages giving the visitors that come through and learn geocaching in their programs (they get the 10-12 gpsr's from Best Buy too) will be able to get a little more experience than just the one set of coordinates. I don't have a state park permit but she did give me a one year work permit so I can visit the park whenever I want. Only works for that park though.
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joboo
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Jan 2008

Posts: 182

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EPMinnesota wrote:
I met with my park contact today too and she already had a spot picked out (although I liked it) and it does sound like we'll have minimal need to be involved. She did ask me a lot of questions and isn't sure exactly who will be writing the page, etc. but did say that the names, etc. will be consistant and we do have to use the ammo can provided which I expected. Are multi-caches allowed? She suggested that it have 2-3 simple stages giving the visitors that come through and learn geocaching in their programs (they get the 10-12 gpsr's from Best Buy too) will be able to get a little more experience than just the one set of coordinates. I don't have a state park permit but she did give me a one year work permit so I can visit the park whenever I want. Only works for that park though.


my contact at McCarthy Beach State Prk, and his supervisor had already pick out where they wanted the 3 stages of thier multi, (along with 3 catchy clues), which was totally cool by me. they are doing all the leg work for this project, which again is cool by me.
Dave showed me around to all the stages, and asked if i'd pick out two finals in the area that they wanted that to be.
all in all i think it'll be pretty cool!!

Peace,
Joboo
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Red_Devil35
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 26 Apr 2006

Posts: 3097

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just talked to the manager at Flandrau, they have everything all set up, and don't need any help at all.
He did tell me they are going to have their 'campground host' take care of the caches on a weekly basis, so they definitely won't be neglected.
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EskoClimber
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 813

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I BCC everyone with the Geocache History Challenge guidelines. If you didn't receive one in your email, contact me and I will send you a copy via email.

If you haven't been contacted by the state park you have adopted, PLEASE DO SO as the deadlines for submission are fast approaching.

April 7 is the deadline. That is in order to give the state and surfer joe time to review and approve the caches.
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msrubble
Geocacher


Joined: 23 Jul 2006

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, EskoClimber, you e-mailed me the special application form for the state parks for this challenge. Is that what you mean by guidelines?
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loneeagle_24
Geocacher


Joined: 17 Jun 2003

Posts: 874

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just talked with one of my LQP SP by phone this afternoon. Sounds like they have most everything in line for this. They already have the spot picked out and such. They actually had a naturalist come and verify that the spot they were putting it in was OK by the naturalist's standards. I am going over on Saturday to review the info with them and get more details on this. Still not sure if I will be owning this cache or the park will. I guess i'll find out this weekend. I will then be able to verify the site and go over any questions they may have about it.

As far as my other park Upper sioux agency State park. The ranger is just giving me the general area she would like to see it placed in and letting me actually do the hide. She said she knows the park like the back of her hand after being there for nearly 18 years. She wasn't opposed to me placing a multi stage cache either as long as it brought cachers to an area of the park that would be "interesting". we'll just have to see if this one becomes a multi stage cache or not.

I printed the guidelines off of the DNR site. I hope these are the ones Eskoclimber is talking about. I also have many of the registration forms printed out so that I can get these completed this weekend and get them sent to surfer joe for approval.
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andrewmcc
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 29 Jul 2007

Posts: 996

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought on demo parks:
I had a multi planned out until I found that I had a demo park and figured I would have to change plans for raw newbies.
I though a multi would be good so they got more experience, but thought what a hassle it was going to be for the desk staff to teach them how to enter coordinates and who would delete them after they were done?
My wife thought of a good idea, put a bunch of dummy coordinates in the gps and then they would have to figure out the right one at each stage.
But we settled on putting regular caches in besides the history cache would be the easiest and it would get more caches in to the parks.

I think demo parks have to be geared for the newbie crowd.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5694

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a call from my park manager (Moose Lake SP) today. I'll be heading down there on Monday hopefully to look over what he's got and offer suggestions, if any. They already have a couple of sites picked out, pending approval of the higher-ups. We didn't go into multi/traditional at all (it would be my preference to have a traditional and he didn't bring the subject up).

We also didn't cover any ownership issues at all (although I did confirm that he has the container).

I also informed him on the phone that I was hoping to possibly place a cache in the park on my own during my visit, not related to the history challenge cache, which he didn't seem to have any problems with at all.

In the end I don't care if I own the cache or it's page or if they do. I'm happy enough just participating and helping the DNR out - this should prove to be an excellent way to bring in new cachers to both the sport and the organization. That's worth the small investment in my time/gas to drive down there (it's a little over an hour drive each way for me during a very busy week, so it's not like driving across town on a lazy Sunday afternoon either).

Thanks again Esko for coordinating this - I know this is probably a pretty big handful - hopefully it will have good payoffs for all involved.
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Paklid
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 09 May 2004

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems there is some confusion lately, and I'm wondering where it originated (and how to get past it).
The division of responsibilities seemed to be well thought out and communicated at the outset:

EskoClimber wrote:
Minnesota State Parks Geocaching History Challenge Details
* The caches will be owned by geocachers and placed by the geocacher with the help of the local park manager
* The job of the cache owner will be to keep the geocache stocked with history cards, check the logbook, and maintain the cache itself.
* The state will provide the ammo can, logbook, history cards
* The local park manager will contact the geocache owner to set up a time to meet to place the cache.
* The parks are looking at the cache owner to maintain and keep the geocache stocked.
* The parks that host the regional finals and the 72 park final are also going to be owned by the geocacher that has that park.
* Cache owners will need to be members of the MnGCA so the we can gather contact information to give to the park managers so they can contact the geocacher that has adopted their park and to make it easier for the MnGCA to contact them as well.
* There will be 5 challenges
* The plan is to have the final coordinates submitted to the MnGCA board so they can issue the coordinates should the cache owner be unavailable.
* The state is hoping to have a trackable geocoin minted that will be given to each person that completes a challenge.
* Each region will have at least one GPS Demonstration Park


I'll bet some of the park managers are more gung-ho than others and want to take ownership of the caches. It seems appropriate for them to visit the caches regularly to see if they're stocked well, etc., but the cache listing should be done by someone who's done it before. If the common name isn't figured out yet, the MnGCA volunteer (if he/she owned the cache) could easily modify the name later. Same goes for special and common graphics the state may want on the cache pages.

Esko, shouldn't you talk to your contact and get them to accept the MnGCA cacher as owner and page editor? I don't think anybody would object to following a common format and graphics if the state wants that, but to make this happen, you're going to want experienced hiders and page submitters to handle that end.
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EskoClimber
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 813

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1. It was my understanding that the cachers would own the cache page
- is that still the case? Some are being led to believe that it's no
longer the case.

I just got off the phone with the state and they want to have ownership so they can edit the caches. This had been discussed before and I was under the impression that it had been settled AND that the local geocacher would have ownership of the cache. That seems to have changed again mainly because the state wants to be able to EDIT the cache pages if neccessary.
I am going to try and see if we can do a joint ownership where both of us have access to the cache page. The state doesn't mind who actually owns the cache, they just want to be able to edit the page if neccessary. It is my impression, however, that gc.com doesn't do multi-owners for access to web page.
I will contact Surfer Joe about this problem.
Quote:
2. Are we filling out the document attached to this email, is the
park staff doing it, or is it a joint effort?

This was supposed to be a joint effort.

I realized today that I don't have the Park Manager's Tip Sheet. That will be sent to me in the next day or so.

The deadline isn't an engraved in stone thing. HAVING SAID THAT, BE AWARE that all these caches need to go through the state to make sure they aren't in sensitive areas which takes time. They also need to get gc.com approval as well. So I wouldn't delay any longer than is neccessary.

The park managers don't have all the stuff for the ammo cans yet. The big thing they need is the locations at this time.
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msrubble
Geocacher


Joined: 23 Jul 2006

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naturally, I hope that the geocacher will own the cache.

The park manager I'm working with was concerned about how we would alert cachers to sensitive areas, trail rules, winter parking, Hiking Club trail etc. and I assured him that we could mention those things on the cache page. There isn't any room on that form for details like that. It is hard for me to imagine that someone in St. Paul wants to be deluged with requests for such things, parking coordinates, and hints for 72 caches all at once.

If the MnGCA geocacher does not own the cache, perhaps the park manager could.
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minnesotabrad
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 03 Mar 2007

Posts: 1267

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This really has me confused. If the state is going to own the cache why would a MnGCA member need to fill out an application and permit form for placing the cache?
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loneeagle_24
Geocacher


Joined: 17 Jun 2003

Posts: 874

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

minnesotabrad wrote:
This really has me confused. If the state is going to own the cache why would a MnGCA member need to fill out an application and permit form for placing the cache?


I have to agree here. If that's the case why are we bothering to fill out the form. It's the park that should be filling it out then. I had been thinking of this earlier but just never thought to bring that up. I was going to ask this weekend.

Personally one of the parks I contacted said that the staff wouldn't have the time to "Babysit" the cache. I guess we'll find out this weekend when I talk with them.
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