MnGCA Home MnGCA
Minnesota Geocaching Association
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   User listUser list   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Tip for users of GSAK & Pocket Queries

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    MnGCA Forum Index -> Tech Talk
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
5savages
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Feb 2005

Posts: 204

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Tip for users of GSAK & Pocket Queries Reply with quote

<<EDIT: Never mind this post. Rubber Toes provided a much better solution below.>>

You may have figured this out already, but I just discovered it this weekend.

I get PQs every week for the entire state of MN. You're limited to 500 caches per PQ and with the filter I have set, that takes 10 PQs. I want to minimize the number of PQs, so I need to maximize the number of caches each one grabs. The addition of new caches and archiving of old caches creates the need to revise the dates every so often. I used to do this by trial and error in the PQ filter page. Very tedious and time consuming.

I decided I'd try to figure out a way to make GSAK filter based on date while limiting the filter to 500 or less. I couldn't get this to work, but then a solution struck me...I get 29 lines of caches on a screen. 500/29 = 17+ pages, so if I page down 17 pages (and if I've sorted the caches based on date placed), I get very close to 500 caches. I note the dates and enter those into the PQ filter. Doing this I quickly had 10 PQs, the first 9 of which had between 490 and 500 caches each.


Last edited by 5savages on Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RubberToes
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Feb 2005

Posts: 222

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a macro that will take a look at your database and tell you the dates you need for your PQs.

If you want, you can set a filter within the macro. I've done this to filter out caches I've found, so at the moment, I'm only requesting 8 PQs for the entire state.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
5savages
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Feb 2005

Posts: 204

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you!! This is even more elegant! I knew I should have posted a question rather than a tip. I thought that macros might do what I wanted but I haven't had time to learn how to create or use them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RubberToes
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Feb 2005

Posts: 222

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Macros are tres cool. Play with the ones on the GSAK forum and you'll have hours of fun. After awhile you might find yourself messing with the code to make them exactly what you want. More fun!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pfalstad
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Feb 2006

Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! My 11th query just hit 500, so this came in handy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
celticwulf
Geocacher


Joined: 24 Oct 2005

Posts: 685

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm...am I the only one amused by the fact that GC.com keeps having database problems, and yet right here we've got 3 people running PQ's all the time to get the whole state. Makes ya wonder if the servers would run better if they did a weekly PQ for the whole state for people that live there Laughing

CW

(and no, I didn't come up with that myself...I'm pretty sure I heard some surfer dude saying something similar at one time)
_________________
Who put this trail here???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
5savages
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Feb 2005

Posts: 204

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they need to remove the 500 waypoint limit. It'd be nothing to have state-wide files available, or for larger states, area-wide files.

It'd be nice if someone set up a central repository for state-wide PQ's, updated weekly, for anyone to access but gc.com would scream about that. I don't really need weekly PQ's for the state, but I when I want to reload my GPS/PDA, it's nice to have them there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get an X series GPS and put the waypoints on the SD card. I realize that there's no way to do it directly but if you add them as some other kind of waypoint there is no limit on how many you can utilize.

I don't understand the necessity for this kind of use but that's me.
_________________
Sad state of affairs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LucidOndine
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 17 Jan 2006

Posts: 1931

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5savages wrote:
It'd be nice if someone set up a central repository for state-wide PQ's, updated weekly, for anyone to access but gc.com would scream about that. I don't really need weekly PQ's for the state, but I when I want to reload my GPS/PDA, it's nice to have them there.


This is where Surfer Joe would normally point out that the sharing of pocket queries is against the terms of agreement for geocaching.com.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. There should be a PQ available for every state. I'm not enitrely sure if geocaching.com is trying to conserve server clock cycles in limiting the PQs to 500 or just trying to conserve bandwidth.
_________________
The Lucid Network (tm)-- More Bars in More Places!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LucidOndine wrote:
This is where Surfer Joe would normally point out that the sharing of pocket queries is against the terms of agreement for geocaching.com.

5Savages has already pointed out in his post that Groundspeak would scream so he has that covered.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. There should be a PQ available for every state. I'm not enitrely sure if geocaching.com is trying to conserve server clock cycles in limiting the PQs to 500 or just trying to conserve bandwidth.

It might conserve *some* bandwidth but overall it certainly wouldn't conserve any CPU cycles. People are currently doing it and requesting these PQs to be run at normal intervals. By doing so, they are already wasting more CPU cycles (and database time) by being forced to do it this way.
_________________
Sad state of affairs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
5savages
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Feb 2005

Posts: 204

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey SB, I think we're talking about two different things.

I do have a X series (Legend Cx) and do put the state caches on the memory card as POIs. When I say I want to reload it, what I mean is update the GPS/PDA with current data. And when I talked about the 500 waypoint limit, I was talking about limit of 500 caches in a PQ, not the limit on the GPS. 500 waypoints on the GPS is enough for me, but as long as I can put the whole state in as POIs, I will.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LucidOndine
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 17 Jan 2006

Posts: 1931

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They probably have to consider the number of paid users who do not currently get an entire state that would if it were readily available. CPU cycles are cheap compared to bandwidth, even though with geocaching.com as mucked up as it is you'd think they'd change the way they manage their data. The real bottleneck with gc.com appears to be the database being tied up at high traffic times. It is my understanding that there is a queue set up for PQs and they're only processed when the database is relatively free.

Even so, if they generated state PQs every week, how many cachers would in addition generate a PQ for new caches placed and one for caches that have been disabled? I know I run this PQ daily and many others who run it too. They have to draw the line somwhere.

I'd argue that generating a 10-15 megabyte state PQ file once per week and having a smaller "recent changes" PQ always updated would not only cut back on server time but probably cut bandwidth needs too.
_________________
The Lucid Network (tm)-- More Bars in More Places!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Arcticabn
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 30 Nov 2003

Posts: 1846

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me if I was doing it. I wouldn't push the state PQ to everyone. I'd prevent it from happening.

What I would do is do it at the site and host it as a FTP. Link each state PQ to a US based map. Click on the state and it would download. That way everyone is not trying to actually run a PQ. It gets run once a week and serverd to those that want it.

Then if you want an update between the last time it was pulled then you just run a PQ for the state with a newer then posting date.
_________________
Airborne All the Way!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RubberToes
Geocacher


Joined: 13 Feb 2005

Posts: 222

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real issue isn't bandwidth. The real issue is that gc.com doesn't want to make the full database easily available to others who might use it in competition with them.

All manner of sane ideas for PQ optimization have been rejected out of hand over the years. There's no reason for gc.com to take a different stance now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    MnGCA Forum Index -> Tech Talk All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Geocaching Cache Icons, Copyright 2009, Groundspeak Inc. All rights reserved. Used with Permission.