MnGCA

Pear Head · Last edited by Pear Head on Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:36 am; edited 2 times in total

I just received the email below. It was sent to a cacher that had a cache in an Eden Prairie park. I will be contacting Mr. Fox tomorrow.

sir_zman · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject:

Well that stinks. I hope we can help them adopt a policy that will be mutually beneficial. I guess no more WNC's out there for a while...we can stop giving our business to their restaurants if they don't want us to play in their parks.

Arcticabn · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject:

there are a lot more areas in EP then just city parks.
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sir_zman · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject:

I just read the park use section of the EP ordinance and I don't see how Geocaching is in violation of that section. I'd be interested in finding out what part it violates:
http://www.edenprairie.org/vCurrent/upload/contents/228/City%20Code%20Chapter%209.pdf

section 9.04

I don't want to step on the MnGCA board's toes if you are talking with them, but I'd appreciate finding out what they say the sport violates.

By their definition of a "Sponsored Group" the WeekNIGHT Caching Crew might violate the Subd. 7. Non-Resident Sponsored Group Use Prohibited. section.

Marsha and Silent Bob · Past MnGCA President Joined: 02 Sep 2003 Posts: 6261

Freedom to assemble in public!
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Sad state of affairs.

Pear Head · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject:

Pear Head · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject:

dornole · Geocacher Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 353

Please let me know if I can help as an EP citizen.

I used to take the minutes for the City Council and also a couple of parks-related meetings. If negotiations with staff are unsuccessful then petitions to the Parks Commission by residents are another way to go. Staff is faster though. : )

If they really think the ordinance needs to change then it's a long process of hearings at Parks Commission and City Council but far from impossible. They just changed the ordinance recently to prohibit "outside groups" recently, the issue was huge walkathons coming into the parks and monopolizing them, buses from camps and day cares, same thing, and people actually running huge private businesses (soccer camps, etc. ) on city property for free. Is this the issue all of a sudden? There certainly is no issue of profit or monopolizing facilities here.

The other thing going down right now is the longtime (and great) Parks & Rec Director (Bob Lambert) retired on Friday. Stu is the 2nd in command and presumably the interim director until the new guy arrives April 23. But as the parks supervisor geocaching would fall under Stu's responsibility regardless. He's a good guy and has been there forever, I'm not sure what the issue or concern here is or how he's interpreting the ordinance. They do often look to other cities or Three Rivers when things come up to see how others handle stuff and revise their ordinances.

I'm happy to draft a letter of support for geocaching and get signatures (and addresses, gotta have that street address in EP) from other cachers. Also happy to come to a meeting with staff or to speak at a commission/Council meeting or public hearing. I've successfully petitioned for parks improvements before.

I'm sure ya'll have been down this road before but my experience is that real live citizens are very powerful. I didn't get any notice on my 7 EP caches.

Hope this helps & may the force be with you--I really don't want to pull my caches. : (

sui generis · Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:06 am Post subject:

My guess is they will use Paragraph Z, which prohibits the deposit of materials within the park. This would really be no different than the rational the state parks originally used for banning caching before they changed thier policy.
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sir_zman · Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:37 am Post subject:

Pear Head · Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:51 am Post subject:

I spoke with Mr. Fox this morning.

First off, I'm guessing those of you that have caches in EP parks will get a note on your cache page soon if you haven't already. The original note came from a cache they found through navicache - this morning they found out about gc.com..

I have some notes from my conversation with him. I didn't argue any of his points this morning, I was more interested in gathering the information than anything. I figured if I started to challenge any of his points that the flow of information would cease. It's my belief that this should be approached through the EP Park Commission, not through Mr. Fox.

EP has worked hard to establish a trail system that, in some areas (conservation areas mostly it sounds like) they don't even allow bicycles. They are not fond of off-trail uses in many/most areas.

He cited protecting sensitive vegetation (again conservation areas came to the top of the list).

He feels geocaching is not allowed under the non-resident sponsored group ordinance (subd 7). They've had problems with large groups running through the parks (I assume causing damage - I didn't make a note to that however) in the past.

He is very open to communication about the subject.

It seems that a policy, if developed, would be a permit system similar to the DNR. He brought up the fact that he is aware of the DNR's policy (he told me that they "take their lead from the DNR").

Any changes to the status quo would need to be started at the local level (ie. by an EP resident), not the state level. He was very clear about this (he mentioned it multiple times). (This would make sense as they are banning under a non-resident provision.)

Besides dornole, do we have any EP residents that would be interested in meeting with the EP Park Commission?

Our next opportunity to begin the changes would be next month. I would like to coordinate a unified effort if we could.

Questions?
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bflentje · Geocacher Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 3655

Hogwash.

GeoPierce · Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:17 am Post subject:

dornole · Geocacher Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 353

I know jssjts is an EP resident & an acquaintance of mine and I think Vermadon is too? And jbtwenty I think is. I can also probably gather 4-5 newbie friends I have taken caching in support, they're all residents and would write or show up at a meeting if I asked them.

A note to all the owners of EP caches thru geocaching.com might be a good idea ASAP so the effort can be coordinated. They may not all be connected with MNGCA and it would be better to have a coordinated response rather than people all calling? Plus you could ask who's a resident to put together an advocacy team.

Keep me posted, I am happy to help head up a citizen effort.

sir_zman · Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject:

By their definition: