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JT
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 31 Jul 2003

Posts: 395

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:17 pm    Post subject: Php Memberlist vs MnGCA memberlist Reply with quote

Sure would be nice to have a page that shows who has agreed and is a MnGCA member. The Memberlist on the Php board as we all know is not accurate, as it includes anyone and everyone under the sun who was come to the site and signed up as a user.

After all, being a member should allow us to communicate with other "Members". Several of the other associations I have worked with in the past have done this kind of thing, a membership directory sort to speak.

Just a thought.

-JT
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tomslusher
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Jan 2003

Posts: 182

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, for example, enter N/A into each of the address fields, overwriting the existing address information?



I tried that but unless I agree with the bylaws I am not allowed to change my address at all, or even to correct it. There are a few things in the bylaws I'm not sure I like so I don't want to agree with. Being a voting member means nothing to me as I believe my vote in this organization will mean nothing. It is filled up with a large group of people who will control everything and a few stray votes here and there will not break it (as it seems that large group refuses to listen to anyone other than themselves).

tomslusher
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Wayfarin Stranger
Geocacher


Joined: 01 Apr 2003

Posts: 122

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, tomslusher. I've stood by long enough to see that I wish to be removed completely from the rolls. I was number 66 to register to begin with and I do not wish to remain here. I do not play cache games so it is pointless to do as sponge bob says to remove yourself. I have lost some interest in caching because of what has transpired over the past year or so with this org. and now wish to have nothing to do with it. I am done with my spiel; please remove me from your list.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayfarin Stranger wrote:
please remove me from your list.

You cannot be removed (please see towlebooth's post above). Switch yourself to "Cache Games Only" and remove your personal information if you so choose.

I will not be held responsible for making that choice for you. I'm sure you, and the rest of the vocal minority will make some fiasco out of it if I do. It's your choice to leave thus you have to click the radio button and save.
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Sad state of affairs.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomslusher wrote:
I tried that but unless I agree with the bylaws I am not allowed to change my address at all, or even to correct it.

You're correct. You cannot be a MnGCA Member without agreeing to the Bylaws. Switch yourself to Cache Games Only and N/A your personal information.

Quote:
Being a voting member means nothing to me as I believe my vote in this organization will mean nothing. It is filled up with a large group of people who will control everything and a few stray votes here and there will not break it (as it seems that large group refuses to listen to anyone other than themselves).

Just like any election, if you didn't vote, you have absolutely no right to blast the administration for their faults. To say that "a few stray votes" cause changes, you're wrong. 220+ people had the chance to vote and the 2005 Board made it easier than ever (moving the meeting to a central location and allowing Absentee Ballots) yet only about 25 people voted. Don't cry to us now because you didn't want to take the 30 seconds to fill out the ballot and pay the postage to mail it in.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5700

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomslusher wrote:
Quote:
So, for example, enter N/A into each of the address fields, overwriting the existing address information?

I tried that but unless I agree with the bylaws I am not allowed to change my address at all, or even to correct it.


Due to a website problem? Hmm.. I'm sure our webmaster will get that figured out soon.

tomslusher wrote:
There are a few things in the bylaws I'm not sure I like so I don't want to agree with. Being a voting member means nothing to me as I believe my vote in this organization will mean nothing. It is filled up with a large group of people who will control everything and a few stray votes here and there will not break it (as it seems that large group refuses to listen to anyone other than themselves).


That's the whole reason to vote. Take for example the geo-coin vote. When I last looked at it (a while ago already), the vote was close between two coin designs. That's what being a voting member allows - it allows people to have a say in the organization. Granted, there will always be a minority - there is in any vote.

Don't think that the large group refuses to listen to anyone other than themselves either. You can make stereotypical statements if you like, and I can't stop you, but please recognize that is what they are. I know I have had on and off-forum discussions with numerous people over numerous issues in the past 6 months and have, on more than one occassion, had to stop and rethink my position on an issue due to what these people have said. Some I'm sure have made a difference on what I think, some I'm sure have not. In the end my vote will be to do what is best for the organization. Granted, there are times when I will (and have) made mistakes. I'm only human, as are the rest of the organization's members.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pear Head wrote:
Due to a website problem? Hmm.. I'm sure our webmaster will get that figured out soon.

There is no problem, the website was designed (staring with towlebooth and continuing with me) to not accept invalid entries. Uncheck MnGCA Member and instead check that you want to be Cache Games Only. Then you are free to edit your personal information as you wish.

You cannot, and I repeat again, cannot be an MnGCA Member w/o agreeing to the Bylaws and offering up a valid mailing address.
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tomslusher
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Jan 2003

Posts: 182

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under my name I am listed as MnGCA member. I really doubt I ever agreed to those bylaws,but I have been wrong before. And another thing, how can I be put on your silly ballot without being a member? I remember SB stating something about me not being able to be put on the ballot because I never agreed to the bylaws. Wouldn't that make the whole election invalid?

tomslusher

another thing, instead of telling 200 people that didn't vote that they are not doing ther duty as a member, we should be asking as to why the choose not to vote. I'm sure more than a few would answer the same as the "vocal minority". And one more thing, how many votes are required to call a quorum. Is 10% enough to validate the election?

done

oh wait, who the heck do you think you are telling me that I have no right to "blast the administration". Whether I voted or not doesn't matter one bit. I have every right to say just about anydamnthing I want. Just because I choose not to vote in your sham election doesn't reduce the validity in my opinion at all. If you choose to lessen my validity than that is your loss as (whether you choose to listen to it or not) my stating my opinion or thoughts is an attempt to make the organization better. It just so happens it falls on deaf ears the vast majority of the time. Maybe someday it will change and I will do the best I can to bring about that change but I am able to see that as of right now, I am powerless to improve the situation. So I will sit here and bide my time
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sui generis
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 17 Apr 2004

Posts: 608

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Laughing Laughing

10% is enough according to the state laws that govern us. However, as you have indicated your desire to no longer be a member, what you have to say about the organization, its policies, and how it is run is of little or no importance. You may continue to rant inanely and probablt will. I suspect you will respond in very short order. Have at it, if it makes your life brighter, by all means, induldge yourself.
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I am amazed by how many people harp on the need to speak and write English in this country while exhibiting a fundamental lack of skills in the areas of spelling and sentence composition. Would this be irony, hypocrisy, or both?
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5700

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomslusher wrote:
Under my name I am listed as MnGCA member. I really doubt I ever agreed to those bylaws,but I have been wrong before.


At this point you can be listed as a MnGCA member and not have agreed to the bylaws. You cannot be a voting member and have not agreed to the bylaws however.

Quote:
And another thing, how can I be put on your silly ballot without being a member?


You already answered your own question in the first line of your post - you are a MnGCA member.

Quote:
I remember SB stating something about me not being able to be put on the ballot because I never agreed to the bylaws. Wouldn't that make the whole election invalid?


Not quite what SB said. Reread his post. I'll quote it here for you:

SB wrote:
Wayfarin Stranger and tomslusher are elligible as of today but if they do not update their MnGCA information and agree to the Bylaws and note that they are 18+, they will be inelligible for the 2007 Board.


tomslusher wrote:
another thing, instead of telling 200 people that didn't vote that they are not doing ther duty as a member, we should be asking as to why the choose not to vote. I'm sure more than a few would answer the same as the "vocal minority".


Let's try not to make assumptions about why people didn't vote. Change will not come if you don't vote. I find it amazing that someone who was nominated in an election, is obviously not happy with the way things were going, didn't vote.

tomslusher wrote:
oh wait, who the **** do you think you are telling me that I have no right to "blast the administration". Whether I voted or not doesn't matter one bit. I have every right to say just about any****thing I want. Just because I choose not to vote in your sham election doesn't reduce the validity in my opinion at all. If you choose to lessen my validity than that is your loss as (whether you choose to listen to it or not) my stating my opinion or thoughts is an attempt to make the organization better.


I'm confused. One part of your post (you should review the forum agreement terms Arrow here by the way) says your thoughts are "an attempt to make the organization better", yet you post offensive language on the forums, call the election a "sham", and fail to vote on or pursue your own nomination.

tomslusher wrote:
It just so happens it falls on deaf ears the vast majority of the time. Maybe someday it will change and I will do the best I can to bring about that change but I am able to see that as of right now, I am powerless to improve the situation. So I will sit here and bide my time


If you want to bring about change then VOTE. You were in an excellent position as you were even NOMINATED. Yet you didn't vote, didn't campaign, and now you sit from the back and tell us how no one listens. It's you that failed to take action. Don't blame the rest of the organization for YOUR lack of action.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite part of this all is that this election was a sham yet the 2005 Board went above and WAY beyond what any other Board preceeding them had done to guarantee that the MnGCA had a fair and balanced vote.

1. We didn't require you to be at a meeting in the metro to nominate *and* vote.

2. We gave more than enough information, notice, and time to nominate any eligible member. (Mind you in the past it was usually deteremined by ANYONE at an MnGCA meeting who raised their hands and/or were begged to run).

3. We offered an absentee ballot for members who couldn't or didn't want to make the meeting. All that required was a click and print plus postage or an e-mail for a faxed copy plus postage to return it back.

4. We had the membership at the meeting elect another official to oversee the vote counting to make sure the member's interests weren't being undermined by the Board.

5. We posted the vote counts for all those who were on the ballot to the general public.

Yet somehow our election was a "sham" and "the old ways were better" (before you think I'm directing my second comment at you tomslusher, I'm not).

Again, I'm absolutely PROUD that we now have a REAL organization that is open, accountable to the membership, registered with the State, have much more equal nominations and elections, and that we have a forum for people to endlessly whine about how much they hate this and that while they make absolutely NO effort to work towards something THEY want.

Just remember the majority of issues that have annoyed the membership recent have had to do with travelbugs (2004's Yellow Jeep TB fiasco) or 2005's geocoins and WJTBs and not stuff that's important or relevant like the fact that prior to the 2005 Board there were no Bylaws, we weren't registered w/the State, there was no public ledger, the 2004 Board wasn't even going to have a Fall Meeting, etc. I didn't see you all up in arms then did I? No. What I do see you upset about is that a group is actually taking the time to make sure that your organization is more than just a website.
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Arcticabn
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 30 Nov 2003

Posts: 1846

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop feeding the trolls.
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pto
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Mar 2004

Posts: 136

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty impressive to see the new Board working together so nicely.
Even have cheerleaders. . . .

Go Team Go!
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tomslusher
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Jan 2003

Posts: 182

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, We'll go through this in order so all the good ol boys can follow along easily enough.

Quote:
your desire to no longer be a member


Please point out when I said I desire to no longer be a member?

Quote:
rant inanely and probablt will


as opposed to your rant, which is always so insightful?



Quote:
by all means, induldge yourself


Trust me, I don't need, nor want your permission to participate.



NEXT


Quote:
At this point you can be listed as a MnGCA member and not have agreed to the bylaws. You cannot be a voting member and have not agreed to the bylaws however.



Quote:
Not quite what SB said. Reread his post. I'll quote it here for you:

SB wrote:
Wayfarin Stranger and tomslusher are elligible as of today but if they do not update their MnGCA information and agree to the Bylaws and note that they are 18+, they will be inelligible for the 2007 Board.



Thank you for your answers. I am still trying to understand how this all is works (which others seem to have the same problem understanding).

Quote:
Let's try not to make assumptions about why people didn't vote


I agree, maybe we could ask people instead of telling them their opinions mean nothing.

Quote:
someone who was nominated in an election


Being nominated and accepting are two different things. Do you think the edit by SB to remove inappropriate language and a direct attack (not offensive, look it up in the dictionary) who nominated me actually meant for me to run and win? He is the person who you should be directing anger at, he is the one who threw a wrench in the system.

Quote:
post offensive language


I think a good judge of what is offensive if they can and do say it on nightly news, than it is ok. If you are truely offendend by the word heck, then you are living in quite a fantasy world. Actually, look it up, there are several meaning that may not be as offensive to you.


Quote:
you didn't vote, didn't campaign, and now you sit from the back and tell us how no one listens


Again, show me where in your precious bylaws does it state that if I don't vote I don't get to state my opinion, hoping that someone will see the error in their ways and actually start caring about this organization beyond their little group of 15 friends.

With 22 people voting, and 15 to be a part of the good ol boys, tell me realistically, how someone can crack that. I am hoping those 15 will tire of this and move on to bigger and better things and put their stranglehold on something new.

Quote:
It's you that failed to take action. Don't blame the rest of the organization for YOUR lack of action


I did not fail to take action, as I stated, I am biding my time because I realize when something is unpenetrable. And you and the rest of the club are complaining about my amount of "complaining", how can that be a lack of action at the same time? Because it is not an action the "club" approves of?


NEXT

Quote:
that this election was a sham yet the 2005 Board went above and WAY beyond what any other Board preceeding them had done to guarantee that the MnGCA had a fair and balanced vote.


I'm pretty sure that you as well as others can figure out what I mean by sham. It has nothing to do with access to vote (which I am impressed with the lengths that you and the board went to to make sure all could vote). I am still talking about the impenetrable "club" that highjacked this organization and their refusal to listen to anyone outside of the club. Whether it be by telling people they have no right to make any statements if they choose not to vote or calling them trolls when they try to state their opinions (and by the way, why don't trolls have a say in this organization too), or pretty much telling people who want to get away from this crap to not let the door hit them in the a#$ on the way out (I'll admit that was never said and it may not even been implied, it is just the way I interpreted it).

Quote:
Again, I'm absolutely PROUD that we now have a REAL organization that is open, accountable to the membership, registered with the State, have much more equal nominations and elections, and that we have a forum for people to endlessly whine about how much they hate this and that while they make absolutely NO effort to work towards something THEY want.


I don't know if I would go so far as to say proud but I do like the fact that we have a real organization with actual rules and such (I think some people take it way too serious, but I guess you need those people too). Since when is whining and complaining no effort? I have tried to help in several instances and was shot down in each and every case. The first that comes to mind is offering to help with the cache of the month and also with the DNR issue. But in each case it is not what the club wanted so I was told my opinion doesn't matter and when the club comes up with an answer they will let me know.

Quote:
Just remember the majority of issues that have annoyed the membership recent have had to do with travelbugs (2004's Yellow Jeep TB fiasco) or 2005's geocoins and WJTBs and not stuff that's important or relevant like the fact that prior to the 2005 Board there were no Bylaws, we weren't registered w/the State, there was no public ledger, the 2004 Board wasn't even going to have a Fall Meeting, etc. I didn't see you all up in arms then did I? No. What I do see you upset about is that a group is actually taking the time to make sure that your organization is more than just a website.


Travelbugs - personally don't care

geocoins - don't care (I think the ball was dropped, but I have kept that to myself. Have you seen what they sell for on Ebay?)

WJTB - no idea what that is

Bylaws - not too concerned and I have a problem with one if the articles anyway

registered - don't really care

public ledger - I still am concerned with some things being keep private, like board meetings, but that is for a different time. (and maybe that is not even what public ledger means, I guess I don't know)

What I am upset about - do you ever read what I type or do you just delete it when you see it is not from the "club"?

Now please understand that these are my thoughts and opinions. And just because you care about something I don't care about doesn't make me think any less of you. I know there are several out there that will call me whatever because I don't care about travelbugs or geocoins or whatever, but it may just something that I personally see as silly and not important. To each his own.



NEXT


Quote:
Stop feeding the trolls.


Would a troll spend this much time trying to correct things they think are wrong?

I still have faith in this organization. there are good things that we can do. And just because someone disagrees with your doesn't mean they are bad people. Maybe they are trying to make things better? Why is that so hard to understand? If everyone always agreed (like the club) nothing would ever get done and it would be pretty boring. open your eyes and see there are other thoughts and opinions that may differ from yours but could be just as valid.


NEXT


Quote:
Pretty impressive to see the new Board working together so nicely.
Even have cheerleaders. . . .


I have never meet nor talked to this guy but he sees things the same way as I do. And there has been more than a few others. Maybe there is something to it. HMMMM???


NEXT

???????
Im sure there will be more.

Thanks for all your time,

love, tomslusher

edit by SB to remove inappropriate language and a direct attack - noted above
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tomslusher
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Jan 2003

Posts: 182

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Show me where the word jackass is offensive or a personal attack, unless you mean that it shows disrepect towards the donkey.

And a personal attack. Like what is being heaped on me (not that I am complaining) is not a personal attack?

tomslusher
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