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Proposed MNDNR State Park Geocaching Policy
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5694

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmnrec wrote:
I'm sorry I don't know how you all do the quote thing..


Top right corner of each post is a quote button.

dmnrec wrote:
but I wanted to let you all know of one aspect of the Duluth policy that we intentionally did. Our department does not "approve" caches..if you read the policy the cacher notifies myself of the placement before placing it. The difference is that if we "approved a cache", and someone was injured in going to the cache, then the city potentially could be sued. By notifying us of caches, I could contact the owner re: trail closures, ecologically sensitive areas, etc.


I didn't know that was the reasoning behind it - thanks for the insight. From a caching point of view I like it as I don't have to run and seek permission for a cache I place - I simply need to email the contact listed in the policy (which is dmnrec in this case) and let her know the details on my cache.

The Duluth policy is simple and it works. It isn't full of rules and regulations that either side needs to follow. There are some rules in there, but it's a very open policy. Ideally that's what *I* would like to see from the MNDNR. We may not get there, but that's where I'd like to see us start.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that the MnGCA Board was able to work with an active and knowledgable geocacher made the policy very easy to formulate and put into place.

The Board really tried to create a policy that was easy to implement, easy for cachers to follow, and will stand the test of time.

We need to show the true successes of the Duluth Policy to the DNR from both sides of the equation.
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ice tres
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Aug 2005

Posts: 97

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any way you guys (I'd be happy to join you if you want) could try to meet with the MnDNR in the fall so we all can know if your ideas about the Duluth Policy will be of any interest to them? That way we'll have time to work out something else within the year review period if they show no interest. We really have to get an idea of the lay of the land before our options are curtailed by time constraints. You know what I suspect -- but I dearly hope I'm wrong. The Duluth Policy would be wonderful if it finds a sympathetic ear but would kill our efforts if presented at the last minute and was dismissed out of hand as not addressing their concerns. Plus, if the Duluth Policy is a no-go, we may be able to discern their concerns and have time to try again.

As I said once earlier, I think we should shoot for another year trial period but for traditional caches this time.

I like the Wisconsin tentative policy, as proposed by WiDNR, but apparently not yet finalized:

http://www.wi-geocaching.com/forums/Forum9/HTML/000017.html
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be up to the 2006 Board to decide when a meeting with the DNR will occur. It will also be up to them to decide who the MnGCA sends to represent us (whether that be via committee or Board members only) and also when that meeting will happen.

Until then I suggest our concentration remain on the proposed policy.
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rickrich
Geocacher


Joined: 06 Jul 2003

Posts: 673

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&start=0

Start there.
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pto
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Mar 2004

Posts: 136

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108&start=0
Start there.


A topic started 2.5 years ago, dormant for 1.5 years, quoting something closer to 2 yrs old? Am I missing something?
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ice tres
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Aug 2005

Posts: 97

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, thanks RR, I'm now cured of my ahistorical p.o.v.

As James Joyce wrote in Finnegan's Wake, "The same anew."

My opinions re MnDNR are reenforced. Interesting to know why they're doing fairly formal rule making as opposed to a simple policy change for such a trivial matter as geocaching.
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2440

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
DIVISION OF OUTDOOR RECREATION
Consideration of Adoption of a Nonrule Policy Document Addressing the Geocaching on Department of Natural Resources Properties (Information Bulletin #46), Administrative Cause Number 03-128T Nila Armstrong from the Division of Outdoor Recreation presented this item. She chaired the
Geocaching Committee, a subcommittee of the DNR Property Use Committee. Armstrong said the committee has formulated a nonrule policy document governing geocaching on DNR properties and has worked closely with the Indiana Geocaching Society.” She said geocaching is
a “hot activity and people of all ages can participate.” Armstrong explained that geocaching is a “sophisticated” scavenger hunt using GPS (Global Positioning System) units to locate caches throughout the world. She said currently about 20 caches are hidden in Fort Harrison State Park, with several hundred located on DNR properties across the state. She said the nonrule policy document would not authorize a cache to contain food or contraband. “It became apparent that DNR should establish guidelines for the property manager to manage this activity and to provide protection for our natural resources.”
Jane Ann Stautz noted that cities have passed ordinances governing geocaching and inquired whether other states have policies. Armstrong responded that many states do have such policies. “We did not reinvent the wheel. We went to our neighboring states and took ideas.” Rick Cockrum asked whether the DNR had received any complaints concerning the placement or management of geocaches. Armstrong answered there have been some difficulties. For example, a cache was placed in a sensitive area in a nature preserve but has since been removed.
Jerry Miller moved to approve Information Bulletin #46, Geocaching on Department of Natural Resources Properties, as a nonrule policy document. Jane Ann Stautz seconded the motion. On a voice vote, the motion carried.
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2440

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsyvania:

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=17e088a0-2cee-4983-8b46-2a3a069cc077

Ohio:

For Ohio, here is the text of the State policy:

Geo-Caching Tips for ODNR Properties

If you are considering establishing a cache on property owned or managed by the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (State Parks, State Forests, State Nature Preserves, State Wildlife Areas), please adhere to the following guidelines to avoid legal complications and/or prosecution:

1. Always consult the local facility manager for permission before establishing a cache. Many are eager to help determine safe, scenic, and fun locations.
2. Traditional caches are NOT permitted on State Nature Preserves or Wildlife Areas virtual caches only. Illegally placed caches will be removed.
3. If you do not know how to contact a local facility manager, please contact the following staff:
State Parks Phil Hoffman (614) 265-6561
State Forests Don Karas (614)265-6694
State Nature Preserves Ron Demmy (614) 265-6453
State Wildlife Areas Jennifer Windus (614) 265-6330
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2440

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice day for geocaching...glad I don't live close to any state parks.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off-topic discussions about everything except Proposed DNR Policy Discussion has been split off and moved here: http://www.mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1745
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ice tres
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Aug 2005

Posts: 97

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Bottom line: we don't need a finalized policy to start talking to the MnDNR. This has to be a fairly extended process as it will likely be very hard to get them to agree to any policy that includes traditional caches. Start with the Duluth Policy (as Pear Head tweaks it), let's get some Board authorization to call them up, and let's get a sense of what they want. There's probably no need for a formal meeting right now. If they're totally resistant to our "dream policy", we'll know in time to mobilize and reasonably compromise to the best of our ability. Just tell the MnDNR contacts that MnGCA is formuating a policy for traditional caches and would like an ongoing dialogue.

Again--I'd happily accept the Duluth Policy if the MnDNR would agree. We just have to know for sure if that Policy is at all viable for them (which, again, I very very seriously doubt but hope I'm wrong). So long as y'all think the Duluth Policy is a viable possibility as a DNR reg, I don't see how you'll come to accept cache placement limitations and reporting requirements that are not in that Policy. We simply have to send the Duluth Policy up as a trial balloon before the MnGCA will, as a group, get serious about hammering out a compromise. One of the first rules of negotiation is to not negotiate with yourself.

We shouldn't get polarized as a group when it would be so simple to test whether the Duluth Policy or some similar plan will be acceptable even as a point of departure for MnDNR. Again, I'm certainly prepared and eager to be happily surprised.

Personally, I believe that a policy that attempts to address MnDNR's perceived concerns would be optimal, but I can see that at least some on the MnGCA Board do not want to do this--and indeed do not accept my contention that the virtual caching policy quite clearly affects traditional caches--and instead want to present our "best case" regulation. That's fine, AS LONG AS YOU DO IT ASAP so we can get on with a more realistic policy, figure out how best to lobby, etc if the Duluth Policy doesn't fly. It makes no sense to first formulate a policy, then figure out how to "sell" it to MnDNR as these two tasks must be done in tandem based on MnDNR feedback.

Better to hear from them now than this time next year.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I thought I picked them all out individually. I apologize for missing one.
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pto
Geocacher


Joined: 18 Mar 2004

Posts: 136

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

King Boreas wrote:
nice day for geocaching...glad I don't live close to any state parks.


Sorry SB- just had to point out #2-
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pto wrote:
Sorry SB- just had to point out #2-

I suck at caching -- thanks for the heads up.
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