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Caches banned on ALL DNR lands??
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lizs
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Joined: 23 Jun 2004

Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:53 am    Post subject: Caches banned on ALL DNR lands?? Reply with quote

Just looking at your info on parks and DNR lands. I don't think caches are banned on all DNR land. Or maybe lots of us have placed caches erroneously? Embarassed

I'm near the Root River Trail and there are a few along the bike trail, which would be DNR land.

Also, what's the status of state forests? I guess I thought they were allowed on that DNR land?

Just wondering. Thanks! Very Happy
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Due to the DNR's lack of specifics regarding geocaching we have to assume that their rules about leaving "abandoned property" include all their lands. Until we hear otherwise, we are suggesting that all of our members do not place caches on DNR property. Of course, if you get permission from a local DNR official to place a geocache then please do but please make sure you list that you were given permission to do so on your cache page.

Please see here for a previous discussion about this issue.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16560#16560
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Moe the Sleaze
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless I missed something, the policy says virtual/earth caches only are allowed in State Parks and not in SNAs. I saw nothing referring to WMAs, boat launches, etc. Did I miss it?
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct, their new policy only seems to mention State Parks. The point of posting it to this thread was to show virtual caches aren't banned on *all* DNR lands anymore.
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Moe the Sleaze
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
Correct, their new policy only seems to mention State Parks. The point of posting it to this thread was to show virtual caches aren't banned on *all* DNR lands anymore.


Nor, by my interpretation, are other types of caches.
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Pear Head
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 04 Apr 2004

Posts: 5692

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
Marsha and Silent Bob wrote:
Correct, their new policy only seems to mention State Parks. The point of posting it to this thread was to show virtual caches aren't banned on *all* DNR lands anymore.


Nor, by my interpretation, are other types of caches.


DNR wrote:
1.1 Purpose
To provide a framework for the management of geocaching (earth or virtual only) in Minnesota State Parks


I'm sure this topic will get nit-picked to pieces...

The way I read it is that this policy only addresses earth or virtual caches. It doesn't address other types of caches.

With that being said, I would have to think that the previous DNR policy would still apply for other types of caches.

Furthermore, these two lines are also present in the policy:

DNR wrote:
2.1 Virtual Caches Only Allowed in MN State Parks
a. Only virtual caches, and types of virtual caches, like earthcaches, are allowed on lands administered by MN State Parks.


This policy only seems to address MNDNR State Parks, not other DNR lands (unless I missed something). I would again assume that the section labeled "6100.1650 STORAGE AND ABANDONMENT OF PERSONAL PROPERTY", which I believe applies to any MNDNR lands, would apply to everything else such as WMAs.

I've said this before: I believe that pushing our luck with the DNR will end up hurting us more than it will help us. If we challenge the policy at this point then we're likely to loose the ground we've gained in a year when it's up for review. If we kindly go along with it, it's possible that we may gain ground in a year or two. If they see us as being a group of law-abiding citizens that cache responsibly then we may earn more from them in the future.

Whether you agree with their line of thinking or not doesn't really matter. They are the ones that hold all of the cards. To me the only responsible thing to do if you don't agree with them is to not visit the parks.

One other thing that we need to address is caches already in state parks. I know of a couple in this area last time I looked. The DNR doesn't appear to be grandfathering in anything.
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Pez Tonto
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Joined: 10 Jul 2005

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The policy does say
Quote:
Traditional cache: A waterproof container with a logbook. The containers vary from plastic see-through types to camouflage painted surplus military ammunition cans. Rules prevent these from being placed in lands administered by the Division of Parks & Recreation.


and http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/parks_recreation/index.html says
Quote:
The Division of Parks and Recreation develops and manages a system of 66 state parks, six state recreation areas, and eight waysides that contain examples of Minnesota's most scenic lands.


So that seems to imply that traditional caches are not prohibited on other DNR lands such as state trails and WMAs.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Abandoned property" is also disallowed in DNR controlled boat launches:

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/arule/6218/0100.html

Quote:
6218.0100 GENERAL RESTRICTIONS ON USE OF PUBLIC WATER ACCESS SITES.

Subp. 9. Abandonment or storage of fish houses, dark
houses, other structures, or property prohibited. A person may
not leave, store, or abandon a fish house, shelter house, dark
house, other structure, or property within a public water access
site.

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Pear Head
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pez Tonto wrote:
The policy does say
Quote:
Traditional cache: A waterproof container with a logbook. The containers vary from plastic see-through types to camouflage painted surplus military ammunition cans. Rules prevent these from being placed in lands administered by the Division of Parks & Recreation.


Uh... Read what the heading is at the top of that section.

DNR wrote:
1.5 Definitions


Because they define it doesn't mean they allow it.

Pez Tonto wrote:
and http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/parks_recreation/index.html says
Quote:
The Division of Parks and Recreation develops and manages a system of 66 state parks, six state recreation areas, and eight waysides that contain examples of Minnesota's most scenic lands.


So that seems to imply that traditional caches are not prohibited on other DNR lands such as state trails and WMAs.


As SB pointed out already, the DNR has already prohibited it on other lands. The DNR policy repeats this (Section 6100.1650). This policy does nothing to reverse that - it simply allows virtuals and earth caches on state park lands. I fail to see how you can read more than that out of it.

Like I said above, I feel that if we abuse what we have been given (the little that some people may think it is), we're likely to A. Loose it an B. Not gain anything else.

This is a slow process (for those who haven't gathered that already).
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Moe's post here: http://www.mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16587#16587

Quote:
I strongly suspect that similar wording is found in the rules and regulations of just about every park board in existence, wether you can find it online or not.. There would have to be in order to keep parks from becoming dumpiing grounds/storage facilities for old cars, boats, fish houses, etc.

That's probably true but those parks districts aren't using that specific wording to ban caching. The DNR does:

From their rules on geocaching found here (emphasis mine): http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_parks/rules.html

Quote:
Geocaching
Geocaching is prohibited in Minnesota State Parks. Due to concerns related to natural resource protection, visitor safety, staff workloads and liability, geocaches are not permitted on lands administered by the Minnesota State Park System. Any geocaches found will be considered abandoned property.

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Moe the Sleaze
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not questioning the regulation in State Parks. I'm questioning the assumption that it applies to other types of state owned land.
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eagleyes
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Joined: 03 Jun 2003

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK- straighten me out on this one- I am under the assumption that caches are not allowed on DNR water access sites- it this still correct or has it changed? I remember a discussion about getting some caches off Island Lake Res. n of Duluth. A newbie just put at least 3 caches at DNR landings up here near Ely and I have suggested that she disable them until I find out for sure- HELP Exclamation Exclamation
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Marsha and Silent Bob
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot speak for all the DNR's representatives but based on their interpretation of the "abandoned property" it would appear that they are.

Ask the local DNR authorities and see. If you hear differently we'd like to know.
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eagleyes
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes- I just was told "check with your local DNR District."
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