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Snowmobile Lobbies vs GPS/Geocaching Lobbies
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2441

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
drops on the cache zone like an atomic bomb, shredding all dead fall and vegetation within a 50 foot radius of grouind zero.


Hey, I saw that too !
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towlebooth
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 26 Nov 2002

Posts: 1270

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not convinced we need to make this an argument between snowmobilers and geocachers.

Sure, we have a lower impact on parks than snowmobilers, but we also have less environmental impact than horses, mountain bikers, family camping, RVs, motorboats and most other park uses.

We will only hurt our cause if we turn groups against us. What we need to do is show parks how we are park friendly, not how others (with more money & influence) are not park friendly.

My two cents.
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Kitch
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in agreement with towlebooth.....

most of the $$$ for lobbist come from manufactors and clubs (hunting, snowmobiling, mountain bikers, etc.).......we are not large enough to support an lobbist for our behalf...but maybe someday...as we grow.
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Kitch
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 18 May 2003

Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

....I wonder if GC already has 1 or 2 lobbist in play.....or considering it.....
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spinowner
Geocacher


Joined: 25 Nov 2004

Posts: 586

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My original post was not to try to pit any side against any other, but rather simply to say that if snowmobiles and ATV's are acceptable uses of a park then the argument that geocaching is too destructive does not hold up in my opinion.
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tomslusher
Geocacher


Joined: 02 Jan 2003

Posts: 182

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in the process of compiling some facts for you to "digest". I do have a slight beef with s4xton comments. Both of his hyperlinks go to opinion or editorial sections of newspapers. Nothing in what he stated can be considered fact as there is no citation stating were the information was taken from. As a matter of fact, both are unsigned too. One was submitted to the Los Angeles Times, hardly an unbiased newspaper and it does not list the name of the author. The second is to a newpaper in Seattle and in an editorial. While I know nothing about this newspaper, I can imagine that being from Seattle, it is, more than likely, also just as biased.


tomslusher

I also don't want to get into a snowmobile vs. anything fight. I just get sick of all the misinformation and outright lies piled on snowmobiles.
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sui generis
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 17 Apr 2004

Posts: 608

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.naturaltrails.org/issues/Factsheets_General/fs_pollution.html

This link also indicates that the exhaust at Yellowstone, as well as other places, may be a problem. Of course, the validity of this will be dismissed by those who do not agree with what it says because it is is prepared by an environmental group. I look forward to "digesting" the facts from the neutral sources (which I am presuming are not the manufacturers or other pro snowmobile special interest groups, since those "facts" are tainted in the same way the "facts" put out by special interest groups on the other side are tainted.)

The whole issue though, is not whether or not snowmobiles are worse than cars, or anything else. The issue is whether snowmobiling has more of a negative impact on the environment than the activity of geocaching. At this point, I believe snow mobile proponents would be hard pressed to prove that geocaching presents more noise pollution, air pollution, and water pollution than geocaching. So back to the original question, why is a more destructive hobby allowed when a less destructive hobby is banned with environmental impact cited as the reasoning.
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sui generis wrote:
So back to the original question, why is a more destructive hobby allowed when a less destructive hobby is banned with environmental impact cited as the reasoning.

Money.
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Sad state of affairs.
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King Boreas
Geocacher


Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2441

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

< snip >

Last edited by King Boreas on Wed May 18, 2005 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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towlebooth
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 26 Nov 2002

Posts: 1270

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's try and get back to the topic at hand.
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Moe the Sleaze
Geocacher


Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1146

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snowmobiling, like gun control, abortion, and the justification for the war in Iraq, is a political hot button that is best left undiscussed among friends.
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BananaForce
Geocacher


Joined: 09 May 2005

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moe the Sleaze wrote:
Snowmobiling, like gun control, abortion, and the justification for the war in Iraq, is a political hot button that is best left undiscussed among friends.


And don't forget which brand of GPSr is best. Laughing
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rickrich
Geocacher


Joined: 06 Jul 2003

Posts: 673

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Visitation
Total Recreation Visits for FY 2004- 2,866,785
Total Recreation Visits for FY 2003- 2,995,640
Total Recreation Visits for FY 2002- 2,969,876
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Moe the Sleaze
Geocacher


Joined: 10 Jan 2003

Posts: 1146

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BananaForce wrote:
Moe the Sleaze wrote:
Snowmobiling, like gun control, abortion, and the justification for the war in Iraq, is a political hot button that is best left undiscussed among friends.


And don't forget which brand of GPSr is best. Laughing


No, that's fair game! Laughing
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BananaForce
Geocacher


Joined: 09 May 2005

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question What is a snowcoach?

Is there a reason stated for the decline? Were there extra rules placed? Or was the snow fall less in the last two years?
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