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"Copied" CD music
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighSky wrote:
I also think that one person with mulitple copies in posession is illegal as well.

You can have as many copies as you would like for personal use (i.e. various digital formats for use on portable media players and desktop computers, backups, etc) but you cannot have multiple copies ready for distribution to third parties (i.e. prepackaged CDs, a hard drive full of mp3s up on any of the various P2P networks, etc).

As much as the RIAA would like to rewrite fair use (and is slowly doing so with Apple) by limiting how many copies of DRMd music you can make it's not part of fair use.
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sui generis
Past MnGCA Board


Joined: 17 Apr 2004

Posts: 608

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The statutes do not seem to specially define "Distribute" as such, it is given its common sense definition. Giving even one copy to another person is a distribution of that copy. There is no breadth requirement I can find to defining distribution for purposes of copyright infringement.

You can, however, give an original copy away. Thus, it shouldn't be a violation to buy bargain bin CDs and put them in a cache. That is still a distribution of the original, there just happens to be a statute permitting that distribution.
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miles58
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005

Posts: 196

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:59 pm    Post subject: Fair use Reply with quote

One may make a reasonable number of copies of a material for their own use. I may make a copy for several vehicles, for my boat, for my walkman etc. This is well defined.


"Distribution" is where the sticky parts begin. Distribution of material can be present with relatively few numbers of receivers, and conversely it can be absent in situations where there are a considerable number of receivers.

My understanding of it is that "distribution" must have a component of depriving the owner of some constructive benefit from the use. This brings it into line with patent law where I may hold a patent on a design but there is nothing to prevent you from copying that design for your own use. n The copyright and/or patent is held for the purpose of protecting the market application of the work.

ie: I may play copyrighted music for a very large audience, tens of thousands perhaps, but if I use the play of music to sell advertising on a radio station for instance that market application aspect of the distribution becomes a factor, and I must pay.

Generally speaking, an audience of tens of thousands would likely have a market application aspect. Similarly a couple of people who were not solicited and without a monetary exchange involved would pose a very high barrirer to the demonstration of a market aspect and/or "distribution".

I have been through this. If someone copies a design on which I hold a patent for their own use it is perfectly legal. Further, if they pass out a few copies without profit motive or solicitation there is nothing I can do about it.
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jaywc7
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Joined: 13 Sep 2004

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You can have as many copies as you would like for personal use (i.e. various digital formats for use on portable media players and desktop computers, backups, etc) but you cannot have multiple copies ready for distribution to third parties (i.e. prepackaged CDs, a hard drive full of mp3s up on any of the various P2P networks, etc).


Makes sense to me. I see what Miles58 means about the different uses too.
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sui generis
Past MnGCA Board


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did some research, but I've never specialized in this particular field of law. I do know someone, however, who practices, teaches and writes on the subject. His position? To copy music and leave it in a cache would be a violation of copyright laws. It would not be fair use. Even if it is only 1 copy.
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King Boreas
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002

Posts: 2440

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm doing a series of 12 caches based on late '60s music. My idea was to provide a copy of the inspiration for each cache, so that people could be exposed to that particular genre. If the song interested them, they might seek out more of the artist's work.

Obviously, it was not a good idea, and I'm glad I got some opinions on it. Thanks to everyone, and I think this topic can be shut down.
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miles58
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Joined: 07 Mar 2005

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:38 am    Post subject: KB Reply with quote

KB,

Coplyright/patent protection is intended to protect not the work, but the market application of the work that the creator may profit from the innovation. No one has been prosecuted for reinventing the wheel, rewriting the novel, or restriking the same note. Profiting from or depriving the holder of the rights of profit is the sole basis for the protection.

IMO an action to enjoin what you propose would be held as frivolous in that it clearly cannot deprive the holder of the rights nor detract from the value of the work. Your intent and results would perhaps not enhance the value greatly but, you never know, I hear you have great influence.

I'm done.
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TwentySeven
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Joined: 06 May 2004

Posts: 175

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

King Boreas wrote:
Obviously, it was not a good idea, and I'm glad I got some opinions on it.

I thinks it's a GREAT idea. Just to hairy to persue. All it takes is 1 kookoo that is looking out for the best interest of someone else, instead of minding his own buisness, to get you in trouble.

Shane
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MNMizzou
Geocacher


Joined: 23 Feb 2005

Posts: 711

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course if CD's just happen to appear in various caches who is going to know how they got there. Besides the RIAA is too busy hunting down 12 year olds using Kaaza and whatnot to venture out into the woods and find an ammo can and see if it has an illegal CD in it. If you put one or two in there they would probably be gone and used before anyone knew it. Or as another idea, why not make them like travel bugs... people pick up the CD, listen to it, then place it in another cache for another person to be exposed to the music... if they enjoyed it then they can go buy a copy for themselves. Just a thought...
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Marsha and Silent Bob
Past MnGCA President


Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 6261

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irregardless of our personal feelings on the touchy subject that fair use has become we still have to follow the laws that are out there.

KB has suggested I lock this thread as it has run its course. I am doing so at his request now.

Locked.
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